Index while loading?

O.k. I just read Rons post and this is a new term for me. Can someone please explain how, why and what not?
thank you

If you mean indexing the sabots, you line up a sabot petal with a reference point at the muzzle, I use the front sight on my rifles but you can place a small mark where you want.

The idea is to be consistent and have the lands of the rifling engage the sabot the same every time. From what I have read, it's best to have the lands engrave the sabot petal and not have a land ride the space between two petals.

I always index and knurl every load I shoot.

yes the sabot, thanks.

OK, if I were use my Timex watch as an example, should I fire 12 shots, each at an hour-point on my Timex watch (1 thru 12), will I circle my target bullseye like the watch times? -- will I shoot left of target when lining up between 6 and 12 on my watch? -- will I never hit the bullseye but once? -- what are the ramifications from avoiding this process? How many inches off the bullseye are we talking about here, if I do not line-up that sabot with the land in my barrel?

TripleSe7en said:

OK, if I were use my Timex watch as an example, should I fire 12 shots, each at an hour-point on my Timex watch (1 thru 12), will I circle my target bullseye like the watch times? -- will I shoot left of target when lining up between 6 and 12 on my watch? -- will I never hit the bullseye but once? -- what are the ramifications from avoiding this process? How many inches off the bullseye are we talking about here, if I do not line-up that sabot with the land in my barrel?

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:huh?:

take two aspirin and text in the morning oke:

:lol: :lol: you all are making this up right??

I believe the principle is to keep everything the same while striving for accuracy. Each detail may or may not provide what the shooter is looking for.

toytruck said:

:lol: :lol: you all are making this up right??

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I don't think they are making it up. Some do 'index' the sabot. To be honest, I haven't got around to trying it.

Then if you start it indexed, even with a 'spin-jag', is one assured it didn't move out of index on the way down?

Good thing our fore fathers didn't have sabots to worry with in a indian fight...we all would be wearin loin cloths an livin in teepee's :lol:

I do index for consistency. I cannot really say it helps much but it certainly does not hurt and it costs nothing to do.

jims said:

I do index for consistency. I cannot really say it helps much but it certainly does not hurt and it costs nothing to do.

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yep! I have been indexing for years now and I will continue to index. In shooting consistency pays off in the long run so I try to stay consistent.

If you can place your sabot so that the petals contact 2 lands IMO you are ahead of the game. And then for those of you that shot smooth surface pistol bullets if the sabot holds the bullet tight correctly so that when the sabot starts rotation the bullet does also you are even further ahead. Many people are now knurling their projectiles to insure bullet sabot lock.

Lehigh/Bloodline has always provided a knurling on their ML just for the purpose of locking into the polymere sabot.

most ML barrels are 8 land and groove, most sabots 4 petal. to get the sabot petals at the open end to ride exactly on a land (or between) you would have to skew by the turn of rifling to the length of the sabot. it is so close that there would almost have to be a cross, or point close enough of slit to land even in a 1-2" length to override the effort. Those figures just dont add up in my head. Ive never bothered with indexing a sabot, and cant see a justification in MY head. Almost seems like the old joke with PRB shooters on which way the stripes on the patch should load.

try Paper Patching and over lap the seam on the paper wrap. Index the seam 6 , 9, 12 , 3 and back to six. Let me know how it affects bullet impact on target.!!

Sounds exactly like the bowhunter, (line up the broadhead with the fletching,) in the bowhunting world this has been disproven, however in the muzzleloader world has yet to be dismissed. Will keep an open mind but feel skeptical.

To me the real question is, "why wouldn't one index the sabot?".

The answer to the question "why would one index the sabot?"... is to be consistent. Whether or not it has any real effect doesn't really matter does it? It seems to me, being consistent is always best.

The photo are the same sabot looked at from 4 different sides. Each petal has 2 lands riding in it.

ronlaughlin said:

To me the real question is, "why wouldn't one index the sabot?".

The answer to the question "why would one index the sabot?"... is to be consistent. Whether or not it has any real effect doesn't really matter does it? It seems to me, being consistent is always best.

The photo are the same sabot looked at from 4 different sides. Each petal has 2 lands riding in it.

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And that is exactly what I am suggesting... Consistency has to be good when performing anything repetitive, especially if you are striving for the good side and as the pictures show gripping an equal number of lands all the way around the sabot has got to help with getting the most out of the revolutions in the barrel.

Nice photos on the sabot.
I think my accuracy at 100 yards indexing could well be less than a 1/4 inch and it may even be less. Nonetheless I never found where it was worse and I certainly just felt better loading it with the same repetition and in a consistent manner.
Bottom line even if it was exactly the same and no improvement over random loading I would probably continue just to remain constant in what I do.

I needed to clear this up, I do not mean I get 1/4 inch groups at 100 yards, I have never had that. I meant the improvement in accuracy could even be less than that. Again I like to stay constant in all that I do in loading, sabot, bullet, pressure, powder, primer etc. If it is all the same I just have a bit more confidence in the shot.

jims said:

I needed to clear this up, I do not mean I get 1/4 inch groups at 100 yards, I have never had that. I meant the improvement in accuracy could even be less than that. Again I like to stay constant in all that I do in loading, sabot, bullet, pressure, powder, primer etc. If it is all the same I just have a bit more confidence in the shot.

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And I would tend to agree with that assessment, but I also think that I feel better that I am less likely to get one of the flyers that are out of the group and inch or so...

Naw! I just feel better being repetitive!

jims said:

I needed to clear this up, I do not mean I get 1/4 inch groups at 100 yards, I have never had that. I meant the improvement in accuracy could even be less than that. Again I like to stay constant in all that I do in loading, sabot, bullet, pressure, powder, primer etc. If it is all the same I just have a bit more confidence in the shot.

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I will experiment by marking my bore and lining up the sabot petal the same way every shot.

Curious thou! When you mentioned staying consistent with everything. You never mentioned breechplug flashole and breechplug flash channel. Seems to me that those two hole sizes / openings, should also remain consistently the same, shot-to-shot, for tightest groups.

So when lining up sabots to lands, shouldn't we be maximizing our holes/channels?

I never touch the flash hole - it stays uniform all the time + it grows enough without probing it... I do clean the flash channel with a twist drill bit.