Index while loading?

[ronlaughlin]

Clean the flame channel after every 7 shots, should help you keep things consistent.

 

[ronlaughlin]

......I think my accuracy at 100 yards indexing could well be less than a 1/4 inch and it may even be less. Nonetheless I never found where it was worse and I certainly just felt better loading it with the same repetition and in a consistent manner.
Bottom line even if it was exactly the same and no improvement over random loading I would probably continue just to remain constant in what I do.

It makes me chuckle to think about trying to random load the sabot. How would i go about doing such a thing, after years of loading every sabot the same way, it is a strong strong habit. NO way would my 'random' loading be random, it would be forced. :wink:

 

[magnus]

Interesting discussion....... A related question about routines: Do most of you use a short starter (~6") after lining-up / indexing your sabot.....and then finish or seat with a range rod?

 

[magnus]

[Many people are now knurling their projectiles to insure bullet sabot lock.

Lehigh/Bloodline has always provided a knurling on their ML just for the purpose of locking into the polymere sabot.]

2 questions....
1. Can Bloodline bullets be purchased directly from Lehigh?
2. Does anyone here knurl their own bullets -- and if so, how do you do it?

Thanks.

 

[deadwooddan]

Interesting discussion....... A related question about routines: Do most of you use a short starter (~6") after lining-up / indexing your sabot.....and then finish or seat with a range rod?

This is where I'm getting at! With what I've put down the barrel in one yr. I feel like there is more to be had. Especially after reading those who have successfully gotten better groups than I. Essentially I want the best accuracy possible as I attempt to shoot farther and farther.

I applaud :applause: everyone who has posted and given reasons on this subject. As it was stated earlier, this minor AND free technique may / may not improve your groups, but nothing to loose and no time wasted.

Way off topic, but I recently discovered that a new to me Savage 99 250-3000 lever rifle is extremely picky and its not so much a bullet wt / twist thing but a bullet length / twist thing in getting accuracy out of it. Any bullet longer than .850" and they will keyhole in a 14" twist barrel. Detail is important.

thanks
DWD

 

[Anonymous]

......I think my accuracy at 100 yards indexing could well be less than a 1/4 inch and it may even be less. Nonetheless I never found where it was worse and I certainly just felt better loading it with the same repetition and in a consistent manner.
Bottom line even if it was exactly the same and no improvement over random loading I would probably continue just to remain constant in what I do.

It makes me chuckle to think about trying to random load the sabot. How would i go about doing such a thing, after years of loading every sabot the same way, it is a strong strong habit. NO way would my 'random' loading be random, it would be forced. :wink:

In order to remember the habit, one has to know the habit first.

I went 12 years with my Omega, operating those plastic thingies randomly.

Whoever decided that seven shots will keep my breechplug in the proper condition...... that won't change my POI? Is there a member/poster-name attached to that recognition?
Someone please ask that knowledgeable person..... How far over will my bullet hole be, be on Shot #8?

Seriously folks. Further up inside this thread is all the talk on consistency. How do we actually know what number shot changes our POI on our breechplug-TLC habits at the range? Is it truly 7? I'm thinking it's not, just like lining up the sabot for two consecutive shots while deer hunting. What are the odds that say not doing means no deer harvest versus deer harvest?

So what's more important in the woods....... range activities or hunting? ..... and does one conflict with the other?

 

[ronlaughlin]

Me is the one what said to clean the flame channel after each 7 shots. Myself, i have no idea how far the eighth shot will fly out of the group, however, i have had enough experience with fliers, to have noticed the eighth shot, for me at least, has been a flier. Just trying to be helpful is all... won't make that mistake again.

 

[rmclaughlin]

I have been a member of this board for a long time
I don't post much because I learn more by reading. My omega45
is set up exactly like ronlaughlins,I do consider him an expert on
Breech plugs.I use his modified Cva plugs in my Kodiak.If ronlaughlin
or sabotloader says to spit down your barrel after you reload,do yourself a
favor and go buy you some chewing tobacco.

 

[Busta]

I wrote something about this years ago, but I'm not going to bother digging it up for the naysayers. They can go find it, or not.

As my grandfather used to say, "everyone has the right to remain stupid."

Deadwooddan,

If ron, sabotloader, or others haven't answered your questions. Please pm me and I'll try to explain.

 

[rmclaughlin]

Your grandfather sounds like a good man.

 

[sabotloader]

[Many people are now knurling their projectiles to insure bullet sabot lock.

Lehigh/Bloodline has always provided a knurling on their ML just for the purpose of locking into the polymere sabot.]

2 questions....
1. Can Bloodline bullets be purchased directly from Lehigh?

You can not purchase the Lehigh/Bloodline from Lehigh - they are under contract to supply Knight

2. Does anyone here knurl their own bullets -- and if so, how do you do it?

Thanks.

I do knurl some bullets but in my case most often I an knurling them to increase diameter for shooting sabotlessly but the basic operation is the same...





And certainly there are other ways to Knurl.

For the bullet to grasp the sabot a heavy knurl is not really needed.

 

[jims]

To answer your questions. Generally I try to keep the flame channel open and changes vents as they wear but I never noticed any change in accuracy so now I go longer and may go 20 or 25 shots before I do either. I have some that have hardened bushings instead of steel vent liners and I only need to do the flame channel on occasion.
It seems if it gets enough fire the accuracy isn't really different, if the vent liner gets too worn I do notice a change.
I used to use a starter but once I got the starting tip that has a bearing or rotates I no longer use the short starter as it was just another thing to carry and saw no accuracy benefit at all. The name of that tip just escapes me at the moment but it is a commonly used jag by many of us.
Spin-jag is the name I think.

 

[BuckDoeHunter]

Interesting discussion....... A related question about routines: Do most of you use a short starter (~6") after lining-up / indexing your sabot.....and then finish or seat with a range rod?

No short starter for me. Only range rod and work my way down

----------------------


We need some volunteers to head to the range and do some test shooting.

How bout 100yd test, 10 shot min., no indexing, no knurling, no breech plug cleaning, etc. Then clean rifle as usual, then just index sabot and your normal shooting routine. Then maybe work on breech plug cleaning between shots and so forth.

I will try to do some when time and weather permits. I'll tell the wife 'Honey, it's raising havoc on the net, it has to be done'.

 

[Lee 9]

I went to indexing to get rid of fliers and found if you do it so that two rifling's engage each sabot petal it reduces fliers by 75 % to 85% depending on the rifle and the fit of the sabot and bullet to the barrel. I have been doing it for 4 years and 7 months now and would not consider changing that particular procedure.

 

[jims]

Just a point of clarification. I do not think indexing means much to me in deer accuracy at all but I shoot more on the bench than at deer and there I can note changes, if any.

 

[Anonymous]

I went to indexing to get rid of fliers and found if you do it so that two rifling's engage each sabot petal it reduces fliers by 75 % to 85% depending on the rifle and the fit of the sabot and bullet to the barrel. I have been doing it for 4 years and 7 months now and would not consider changing that particular procedure.

Now there's something to work off-of.

 

[flounder]

Back to the indexing sabots, In my opinion it comes down to consistency, which is what I consider the key to accuracy no matter what you're shooting.
Art

 

[toytruck]

:yeah:

 

[long shot]

don't know if it works but know a gentleman that holds 200 yd. Black Powder Cartridge Rifle record, for the NRA. He indexes the case in chamber and indexes the bullet in the case, difference, maybe 10 ring to an X ring. I think if you want to prove the point is to take a bullet and nip the base or the sabot. Then shoot it 6, 9, 12 , 3 and back to 6 to see if impact changes. All muzzle loading is about same thing every time.

 

[long shot]

don't know if it works but know a gentleman that holds 200 yd. Black Powder Cartridge Rifle record, for the NRA. He indexes the case in chamber and indexes the bullet in the case, difference, maybe 10 ring to an X ring. I think if you want to prove the point is to take a bullet and nip the base or the sabot. Then shoot it 6, 9, 12 , 3 and back to 6 to see if impact changes. All muzzle loading is about same thing every time.

forgot to mention the Record. it was 100 and 10x, which can never be beat. He is in his 70's