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Muzzleloading BC - what is the gain

Discussion on long range hunting and target shooting muzzleloading here!

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52Bore
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Muzzleloading BC - what is the gain

Postby 52Bore » Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:41 pm

A better BC is to gain a flatter trajectory.
Here's the comparison with identical loads, only difference is BC.
BC .25 .35 1.jpg

BC .25 .35.jpg


Impact differences between the .25 & .35 BC:
200 - 1" negligible difference (both have 10" of Drop)
300 - 5" (1.6 MOA)
400 - 16" (3.4 MOA)
500 - 31" (5.1 MOA)
Does anyone know how much more time does it take to adjust one's scope the additional MOA?

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Re: Muzzleloading BC - what is the gain

Postby Dougs136Schwartz » Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:02 pm

At longer ranges it's not the drop that gets me it's the wind . Drop is consistent wind is not . Myself I'm not good at reading the wind I need all the help I can get .

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Re: Muzzleloading BC - what is the gain

Postby ENCORE50A » Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:05 am

Notice the difference in bullet energy between the same weight bullets, yet different BC's?
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Re: Muzzleloading BC - what is the gain

Postby GoexBlackhorn » Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:40 am

Find the bullet that suits / works with your ML and budget best. You want to have the best-possible accuracy bullet. You want that bullet to be relatively easy-loading. Don't worry about BC, for 90% of deer harvests are 100 yards or less.

You don't need the fastest powders either. Roundball and real blackpowder combo has harvested more deer than any other powder or bullet. Then the XTP and Powerbelts follow, as does Pyrodex powder.

Nothing special needed for this sport, 90% of the time. The most important thing to remember is matching the proper primer/cap to your powder of choice and taking weather-related precautions / safeguards regarding protection of that ML in dismal weather / high humidity places.

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Re: Muzzleloading BC - what is the gain

Postby ENCORE50A » Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:50 am

GoexBlackhorn wrote:........ You want to have the best-possible accuracy bullet. You want that bullet to be relatively easy-loading. Don't worry about BC, for 90% of deer harvests are 100 yards or less........


Maybe the post should have been in the long range hunting and target instead of the inline forum?

GoexBlackhorn, if you happened to notice 52bore was comparing the bullets out to 500yds also. So if one is hunting or shooting long range (200+) BC does make some difference, including bullet energy as indicated by 52bore's charts.
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Re: Muzzleloading BC - what is the gain

Postby sabotloader » Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:40 am

As suggested, this topic makes more sense in this Forum Area
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Re: Muzzleloading BC - what is the gain

Postby 45cal » Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:58 am

GoexBlackhorn wrote:Find the bullet that suits / works with your ML and budget best. You want to have the best-possible accuracy bullet. You want that bullet to be relatively easy-loading. Don't worry about BC, for 90% of deer harvests are 100 yards or less.

You don't need the fastest powders either. Roundball and real blackpowder combo has harvested more deer than any other powder or bullet. Then the XTP and Powerbelts follow, as does Pyrodex powder.

Nothing special needed for this sport, 90% of the time. The most important thing to remember is matching the proper primer/cap to your powder of choice and taking weather-related precautions / safeguards regarding protection of that ML in dismal weather / high humidity places.



So if 90% of deer are harvested 100 yards or less why do we all worry about super velocity and using sabots and ETC. Then there is really no discussing anything that shoots further than Roundball and black powder. Not even scope is an issue. would that be a correct note ? Not stepping on any toes just making a note

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Re: Muzzleloading BC - what is the gain

Postby dbowling » Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:58 am

45cal wrote:
GoexBlackhorn wrote:Find the bullet that suits / works with your ML and budget best. You want to have the best-possible accuracy bullet. You want that bullet to be relatively easy-loading. Don't worry about BC, for 90% of deer harvests are 100 yards or less.

You don't need the fastest powders either. Roundball and real blackpowder combo has harvested more deer than any other powder or bullet. Then the XTP and Powerbelts follow, as does Pyrodex powder.

Nothing special needed for this sport, 90% of the time. The most important thing to remember is matching the proper primer/cap to your powder of choice and taking weather-related precautions / safeguards regarding protection of that ML in dismal weather / high humidity places.



So if 90% of deer are harvested 100 yards or less why do we all worry about super velocity and using sabots and ETC. Then there is really no discussing anything that shoots further than Roundball and black powder. Not even scope is an issue. would that be a correct note ? Not stepping on any toes just making a note


If we are being honest with ourselves then yes he's right 90 percent of deer are taken at 100 yds or less(more then likely 65 yds or less) especially in the Midwest, I know most of all the deer Ive killed(a bunch) have been at 45 yds and in.
if you choose to hunt bean fields or any type open area(out west) then these discussions are perfectly valid. But for most hunting in woods or thick heavy cover areas a roundball would cover everything, we just choose to use scopes/sabots etc. A big lead conical will definitely cover all Eastern hunting.
Definitely valid discussions when punching paper or steel out to long ranges 300 yds or better.
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Re: Muzzleloading BC - what is the gain

Postby Dougs136Schwartz » Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:57 pm

I have to be honest Rick has me thinking on this subject . Goes back to light and fast or slow and heavy . Average Hunter Yes BC does not matter . Most of the my tree stands are bow and or gun tree stands . Most shots are 100 yards or less . Rick posted this topic for discussion . In my mind it goes back to heavy and slow or light and fast . A lighter bullet (300 ish )needs speed and BC to help with the wind . Bullet drop for the most part is consistent wind is not so BC does make a difference at longer ranges when dealing with wind .

Now your heavier bullets (500 ish) may not have the BC nor the speed but does it need speed or BC ? The heavier bullet will still handle the wind well without the speed but obviously has more bullet drop . BUT.... the heavier bullet carries better at extended ranges and does the bullet drop really matter with today's range finders and scopes ???

Excellent topic

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Re: Muzzleloading BC - what is the gain

Postby ronlaughlin » Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:14 pm

Here we can only use iron sights or 1X glass during muzzle loader season. It seems one doesn't need knowledge of bullet BC here. Evidently i am one of the 90%. However, i am interested in knowing how different bullets with different BC fly. Possessing the knowledge of BC, and flight of the bullets i use, doesn't hurt me in any way. The deer i tagged using my muzzle loader was out 75 yard. Surely i didn't need to know the BC of the killing bullet. It happens i did know the BC of the bullet. It happens i did know how the bullet would drop out beyond 75 yard. What is the harm? ☺

In my opinion, stifling curiosity is far more harmful, than allowing an individual to pursue, study, and satisfy his/her curiosity about bullet drop. It makes me happy there are individuals investigating bullet drop, and wind drift, even though it doesn't much apply to me.

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Re: Muzzleloading BC - what is the gain

Postby ENCORE50A » Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:54 pm

Dougs136Schwartz wrote:............. . Bullet drop for the most part is consistent wind is not so BC does make a difference at longer ranges when dealing with wind .
Excellent topic


Doug I agree with drop, but that darned wind is tough. Check out the 4moa difference in the charts between the bullet BC's.
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Re: Muzzleloading BC - what is the gain

Postby 52Bore » Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:25 pm

As a side note for Short range to 150 yards - in my brief time here - there has been a ton of discussion on topics relating to Ballistic Coefficients, Bullet designs including Terminal Ballistics, Progressive Burning powder, etc.. I've proven to myself that this is nonsense as none of it matters within 150yards.
I can certainly understand about limited hunting distances in the woods that some ML have - but from PA to CA I've driven by farms that had opportunities more than 100-150 yards.

This BC thing had me thinking as well, kinda why I posted. I went to 500, because that's what I'm used to at Friendship, but I understand that's extreme for MML, but 300 isn't. One should take this given data for their situation, if it's doesn't fit for them - then be silent one might learn something.
Regardless of load, I think if one can get proficient at longer distances (ex.300) a 225 yard shot should be an easy dead kill.. and so on.

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Re: Muzzleloading BC - what is the gain

Postby dbowling » Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:26 am

agree with on this also Ron..always good to have knowledge how your bullet shoots, like anything more education never hurts anything.




ronlaughlin wrote:Here we can only use iron sights or 1X glass during muzzle loader season. It seems one doesn't need knowledge of bullet BC here. Evidently i am one of the 90%. However, i am interested in knowing how different bullets with different BC fly. Possessing the knowledge of BC, and flight of the bullets i use, doesn't hurt me in any way. The deer i tagged using my muzzle loader was out 75 yard. Surely i didn't need to know the BC of the killing bullet. It happens i did know the BC of the bullet. It happens i did know how the bullet would drop out beyond 75 yard. What is the harm? ☺

In my opinion, stifling curiosity is far more harmful, than allowing an individual to pursue, study, and satisfy his/her curiosity about bullet drop. It makes me happy there are individuals investigating bullet drop, and wind drift, even though it doesn't much apply to me.
White M97 .504
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White M97 .504
White G SERIES .451
WHITE BISON .504
KNIGHT MH .50
T/C FIREHAWK .54
T/C RENEGADE .54
OPTIMA PISTOL
CABELAS SPORTIZED HAWKEN .54
" " .45
T/C BLK. DIAMOND PISTOL .50
H/A UNDERHAMMER PISTOL(2) .45

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Re: Muzzleloading BC - what is the gain

Postby 52Bore » Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:13 pm

Dougs136Schwartz wrote:At longer ranges it's not the drop that gets me it's the wind . Drop is consistent wind is not . Myself I'm not good at reading the wind I need all the help I can get .

At least drop is constant as Newton figured out..
The wind is not constant..
We've kinda figure out or loads are about 1moa/100yds with a 10mph. But, there is no such thing as a constant 10mph from muzzle to a target 300-500 yards away.

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Re: Muzzleloading BC - what is the gain

Postby Dougs136Schwartz » Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:43 pm

What is the BC of a 500 grainish paper patched bullet (.45) Are u guys pushing them around 1200 to 1300 fps ? Also what ballistic app are you guys using . I use to use Hornady but they changed the app . It kinda sucks now my numbers are different .

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Re: Muzzleloading BC - what is the gain

Postby 52Bore » Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:36 pm

Dougs136Schwartz wrote:What is the BC of a 500 grainish paper patched bullet (.45) Are u guys pushing them around 1200 to 1300 fps ? Also what ballistic app are you guys using . I use to use Hornady but they changed the app . It kinda sucks now my numbers are different .

0.37
I use JBM and Hornady Ballistic programs.

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Re: Muzzleloading BC - what is the gain

Postby 45cal » Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:37 pm

I use one on Vortex sight. It has work sheet to help get your true Velocity and Bc


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