45 cal sub base

[dlethcoe]

CVA 45 cal KODIAK
New breech plug with the vent liner. From Carlos
Primers, W209 Winchester
Bullets were
Hornady 452/250 gr Monoflex sabotless, shooting 100 gr of BH 209.
Lehigh 452/250 gr XP sabotless, shooting 110 gr of BH 209

Made it to the range today, tenp 39* wind left to right, avg 19 mph, 100 yard target. 
First up was the Hornady monoflex 452/250 gr, Sabotless,100 gr of BH 209, 
First up was with the felt wad base, Shot 1 was out of a cold clean barrel, <a href='/tags/2' rel='nofollow' title='See all tagged subjects with: #2'>#2</a> & <a href='/tags/3' rel='nofollow' title='See all tagged subjects with: #3'>#3</a>, felt pretty good,  <a href='/tags/4' rel='nofollow' title='See all tagged subjects with: #4'>#4</a> felt good, But I knew I pulled it.

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Next up was the same as before, but with the sabot base with the pedals trimed off. <a href='/tags/1' rel='nofollow' title='See all tagged subjects with: #1'>#1</a> was bottom right of target, <a href='/tags/2' rel='nofollow' title='See all tagged subjects with: #2'>#2</a> was above target, and <a href='/tags/3' rel='nofollow' title='See all tagged subjects with: #3'>#3</a> was straight below target

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I did the same with the Lehigh XP'S bullets, but with 110 gr of powder.

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I was getting a lot of blow back on the primers, they were covered with powder, I have always needed to put an O-RING in the primer pocket, but did not do it, My fault. In this carry box, I did not have any with me :slaps:   This caused some of the accuracy I beleive. I did not adjust scope for either bullet, just wanted to do groups  and try to compare, Will need to make another run to the range for more testing, and have everything that I need in this box, And the O -RING in place. This is a test, and something else to try.


Dave

 

[cvilorio1]

Good shooting Dave, and yes by cutting the petals of the sabots all you have is a sub base. The XP's shot great both ways. Those bullets are extremely accurate. You have some O-ring on the way first thing Monday morning for the Kodiak.
Great report.
Carlos

 

[Underclocked]

Dave do you have a chronograph?  It would be interesting to see if there is a difference. Still a good report  and not bad for shooting in the cold.

 

[dlethcoe]

Biddler2, Sorry I don't, If I forgot to put the o-ring in the primer pocket, I most likely would end up shooting it.

Dave

 

[Underclocked]

I can cut some light blue harvesters and try with Barnes 250 TEZ's and chronograph them. I need to get some of the Lehigh's so I can test those. Was going to wait but what the heck. Plus it's been much warmer here.

 

[dlethcoe]

With the weather being warm here, Thats why I wanted to go try them out and compare them, I know GregK and Al-53 are getting bad weather, and Al received his new ACCURA yesterday from Carlos, and wants to go try it out, Al is the one that brought the idea up and we started talking about it, It will be interesting to see what you come up with for speed.
 I like the Lehigh bullets, they are very accurate, and shoot great out of the MR'S and the Kodiak.

Dave

 

[Al-53]

Looks good Dave...I have some tan MMP's and some Blue harveters...the tans seem to funnel in more on the powder side of the base,,more of a pitch on the skirt...dont know if it will make any difference but we may as well try both....if you need tans I can send some...I am hoping the weather will be nice tomorrow and I can get to the range...I have some PT golds to try..XPT's and SSt's and maybe some Nosler .45 sport handgun bullets in 250 grain  from awhile ago when reloading metalic cartridges..have to look ...

 

[Marty1]

Nice range report dlethcoe. 

I bought a few boxes Barnes XPB .451" in 275 grain awhile back because I got a great sale price on them. My intent was to try them sabot-less one of my  .45's this year.  I guess if they don't work I can always sell them.   :|

 

[dlethcoe]

Marty, 
I thing that would make for a great sabotless bullet to start out with, and a hunting bullet. If you have any question PM me.


Dave

 

[Blacksheep]

Dave,

I've had great success with the MMP sub-bases in my 2 50's that I shoot sabotless and tried cutting the petals off some tan  sabots for the same thing .  Two questions what did you use to trim them and how did you get the petals for lack of a better word even all the way around ?  I've knurled up some pt 260's and 300's but after today with the PR Bullet 260's success in my .45 it maybe academic, though I'd love an option in the hot summer months.

 

[dlethcoe]

I used a piece of wood, drilled it with a bit that was the same size as the sabots, and a razor blade, then trimed the dedals off. The sabot sets up in the wood just over the edge of the wood,so you would have a better chance to keep it even, or if needed a little triming. I will take a couple of pic and attach in a little while. 
Al-53 and I was trying to come up with a way to do this, but I wanted to go shoot and I had some nice weather, so I threw this together just to see if it would work.



Dave

 

[Blacksheep]

Dave,

Thats good thinking.  I think all things being even the sub-bases might give a tighter seal than a felt wad the trade-off being wads work better in 80 degree summer heat .  Since my range won't allow firing till 9 am in the summer its 80 before I get the first rds downrange, and if you use plastic groups and sabots look funny .

 

[GregK1]

Great job Dave. I'm seeing some very promising results here. It's gonna be really cold for a few days so I'll work on sabots & hopefully get out soon for some additional tests. Keep up the great work buddy!

 

[dlethcoe]

Clyde. Here are the pic of how I cut the pedals off,

on the last one you can see how the sabot sticks up just a little, to help with a flatter even cut. 
I think even if the edge was cut down just a little, it might not hurt, or effect the sabot, the bullet will be just setting on it, and the knurling from the bullet will be catching the rifling as it is pushed out ward, and the base will be expanding out to the rifling from the pressure of the discharge powder, I may be talking out of my back side,  but it is something to try. The mmp sub bases are higher in the center for the 50 cal. 

Dave

 

[Blacksheep]

I think your on the mark.  Isn't that half the fun with muzzleloaders trying new things.  I can't see that little bit making a difference because the base will be tight to the charge, wonder how many 45 shooters we need till MMP makes them in 45 lol.

 

[dlethcoe]

Maybe with the SML group and this, others might look at it a different way, Sounds good.

Dave

 

[Underclocked]

In the smokeless realm they are working to get rid of the wad/base altogether. Duplexing helps tremendously with getting the base of the bullet to expand.

 

[dlethcoe]

I get in enough trouble with the wife with the muzzleloaders, let alone getting into smokeless.


Dave

 

[cvilorio1]

I think your on the mark.  Isn't that half the fun with muzzleloaders trying new things.  I can't see that little bit making a difference because the base will be tight to the charge, wonder how many 45 shooters we need till MMP makes them in 45 lol.

Maybe with the SML group and this, others might look at it a different way, Sounds good.

Dave

In the smokeless realm they are working to get rid of the wad/base altogether. Duplexing helps tremendously with getting the base of the bullet to expand.

Dave you are doing great, and you are in the right track. As far as MMP coming out with a sub base for the 45 cal. I would doubt very much, since their excuse would be not enough 45 cal. shooters, and as you seen by Dave demonstration is not hard to do your own. As far as shooting this set up in the hot summer time, it would not be a problem at all, the heat only affects a full saboted bullet, this set up only uses the the sabot sub base and the bullets is knurled to engage the lands so it owuld not created a problem. As biddler2 put it, in the SML world we are trying to get rid of the sabot. I myself have 4 SML at this time which do not require anything, just powder and bullet and they are ready to go. Like I stated many times in the past in the different post in here, and when I first started going sabotless with the ML's, the weakest link in a load is the sabots.
Carlos

 

[Al-53]

When I first mention to dave about the cutting of the sabot to use just the base he thought it was a good Idea along with my self..But dave has a better approach in the testing as this is my first time shooting knurled .45 bullets...Dave emlightened me in his way of teting where I may have not done it that way...

before I started this I called harvester and ran the idea with them..they said it should work...its getting the right combo ...then I called MMP...and talked to some guy there...and he said it may not work..and i asked about the bridge if they had plans for a .45 ..he said no..they are meant to put under a sabot for the SML people so they dont have sabot blow outs...why you see the set of sabot /bridge combo and singles...they did not seem that friendly to talk to...

Any ways i have had a chance to shoot my .45 uyet as the weather here has been crazuy..now we are expecting 20-30 inches of snow starting tomorrow...

But Dave has the right way of doing the tests..I have learned alot from him....and carlos...