A newbie problem…

[Greenhills]

Recently moved to PA, and decided to take up black powder to get the benefit of the additional days on the front and back end of the season. Plenty of smokeless experience, none with black powder, but decided to take the plunge and try the full flintlock experience, both because of the after Christmas primitive season and because it looked interesting and fun (And because I finally have a place to shoot on an inexpensive range and a lot of land to walk over, courtesy of my tax bill). Picked up a Traditions Pennsylvania pellet rifle with a .50 bore. The owner’s manual says the rifle can fire either patched round balls or sabots, but decided to start with patched round balls. Initially had a LOT of trouble getting the ball started - it stuck just inside the muzzle, at the point where the rifling starts, so I pulled the ball, fired the blank charge (helpful for experience in pulling a ball and making sure the flint was positioned for proper ignition, but not much else).

Cleaned it and greased it, and then consulted the manual, which recommended that a barrel with cold grease might be hard to load, so I followed the manufacturer’s advice and degreased the barrel prior to firing with alcohol. Loaded the gun successfully one single time, fired it, and then couldn’t reload - same problem, couldn’t get the ball into the grooves. I attributed it to fouling, so I cleaned the barrel, tried to load it.- again, no luck: the ball stuck fast. Pulled it again, fired the blank, punched the tube, tried to reload - same problem.

So after pulling the ball, firing off the charge, and disassembling, cleaning, and greasing the gun, I am somewhat perplexed. I can confirm that the bore was not blocked, and I cleaned it, alternating solvent-impregnated patches and dry white patches until the patches came through white. The bore is .50”, and the balls are .490”; the patches are greased pillow ticking and I am confident that I am not getting two of them. The only idea I have is that I have been punching the tube from the muzzle end when the gun is disassembled, rather from the breech end; is it possible that I am creating an accumulation of gunk in the rifling grooves that prevents ramming? Or is there some other simple solution that I am missing here that the forum could help me with? Any ideas are welcome - I would like very much to progress from noisemaker to rifle……

 

[Shorty]

Take a set of mics and mic your patches. Sounds to me they are too thick..

 

[Greenhills]

Mics?

 

[CatamountRob]

Just try a thinner patch.

 

[CatamountRob]

Mics?

Micrometer.

 

[CatamountRob]

I think pillow ticking is generally around .018, I’d pick up a package of .015 and .010 patches and try those and go from there.

 

[deermanok]

Thinner patches!

 

[Greenhills]

Good advice, thank you for the help!

 

[ElDiablo]

Yes, thinner patch. And I assume you’re using a short starter?

 

[Greenhills]

Yes, a ball starter.

 

[Greenhills]

Thanks very much for the advice, going to get some .010 patches, will let you know how it works out.

 

[Kap]

I have the exact same rifle. The 1st inch is a bit harder to start with .015 patchs. If you have to fight the ball all the way down to the powder, then the barrel is dirty. When you try conicals, which are supposed to be more accurate it is extremely hard to first get started after that it is no problem. I use lubed patchs that are .010 thick with round balls. It makes loading a whole lot easier. Conicals require grease only. I measure with a vernier caliper which is very reasonable to buy at Harbor Freight.

 

[Greenhills]

Thanks, I am going to pick up some .010” patches and try them out - as soon as it stops raining.

The one I was able to get down was exactly as you describe it- hard for the first inch, then pretty easy. The others all stuck in the first inch, and resisted my best efforts. I am pretty religious about rifle cleanliness- I always clean at least the bore after every shoot.

 

[Greenhills]

Posted elsewhere, but a thanks to all of you- the thinner patches did the trick!

 

[Hanshi]

I'll be the odd man out and suggest a .485" ball and the same patch. It's always a good idea to polish the muzzle crown. Sandpaper and your thumb is all it takes. The ends of the lands are usually too sharp and patches with cuts get them at the muzzle via the sharp muzzle. In my 45, for instance, I can seat a .440" or a .445" ball using a canvas patch of .024" in thickness. Best results usually come from a load tight enough to have significant compression in the grooves. Same thing with my .50. It fires a .490" ball with a .024" patch and is easily seated with the wooden underbarrel rod.

 

[Kap]

I'll be the odd man out and suggest a .485" ball and the same patch. It's always a good idea to polish the muzzle crown. Sandpaper and your thumb is all it takes. The ends of the lands are usually too sharp and patches with cuts get them at the muzzle via the sharp muzzle. In my 45, for instance, I can seat a .440" or a .445" ball using a canvas patch of .024" in thickness. Best results usually come from a load tight enough to have significant compression in the grooves. Same thing with my .50. It fires a .490" ball with a .024" patch and is easily seated with the wooden underbarrel rod.

The barrels come already crowned and polished from the factory.

 

[Hanshi]

They do come "crowned" from the factory but that's all. Push your thumb tightly against the muzzle and rotate it around. If you do you will feel the edges of the lands and that means they are sharp enough to cut a patch. The muzzle (polished) will be a smooth and sort of "rounded" for around a 1/8" into the bore.
Another thing envolves the patches. They should be only large enough to wrap the "sides" of the ball and not come over the top. And to start the ball you need a "short starter" to get the ball into the bore and it should be little problem to push it down on the powder with the ramrod. The lube also makes a difference. liquid lube - this includes even just plain water - will allow the prb to be seated without undue protest. My favorite is Hoppes BP lube but auto WW fluid will work well. When I still hunted for large and small game I lubed with TOTW "mink oil" which is a grease that comes in a tin. I like my patches well lubed, and if a liquid lube, very wet but not drippy. A short starter gets the prb through the muzzle and causes the ball to actually be marked with the rifling. Don't go any thinner than pillow ticking, mattress ticking, a bit thicker, is even better. With a snug load each reload will push the fouling down on the powder so there will only be one shots amount of fouling in the bore. I virtually never wipe the bore at all when shooting. I just load and shoot, load and shoot until it's time to go home.
Below is a photo of a few of my home made short starters, I have a bunch of store bought and homemade ones.

 

[Smyrnagc]

Really like your signature statement!!!

 

[Kap]

They do come "crowned" from the factory but that's all. Push your thumb tightly against the muzzle and rotate it around. If you do you will feel the edges of the lands and that means they are sharp enough to cut a patch. The muzzle (polished) will be a smooth and sort of "rounded" for around a 1/8" into the bore.
Another thing envolves the patches. They should be only large enough to wrap the "sides" of the ball and not come over the top. And to start the ball you need a "short starter" to get the ball into the bore and it should be little problem to push it down on the powder with the ramrod. The lube also makes a difference. liquid lube - this includes even just plain water - will allow the prb to be seated without undue protest. My favorite is Hoppes BP lube but auto WW fluid will work well. When I still hunted for large and small game I lubed with TOTW "mink oil" which is a grease that comes in a tin. I like my patches well lubed, and if a liquid lube, very wet but not drippy. A short starter gets the prb through the muzzle and causes the ball to actually be marked with the rifling. Don't go any thinner than pillow ticking, mattress ticking, a bit thicker, is even better. With a snug load each reload will push the fouling down on the powder so there will only be one shots amount of fouling in the bore. I virtually never wipe the bore at all when shooting. I just load and shoot, load and shoot until it's time to go home.
Below is a photo of a few of my home made short starters, I have a bunch of store bought and homemade ones.

My lands end about .315 back from the end of the barrel. I put some panty hose in the end & twisted it around and they didn't seem to snag at all. So what are your thoughts. Does it still need polished ? I like your ball starters, mine is store bought around 25 years ago. When I first got into the sport/hobby.

 

[Hanshi]

Polishing the crown certainly wouldn't hurt anything. The thing about polishing is that it gives a smooth, rounded entry into the muzzle. As I mentioned previously after I did the work on my rifles crown I was able to use a heavy canvas patch. My .45 has grooves of about .010" deep. This means that I have about .47" from groove to groove. I use .440" and .445" ball in the rifle; but for illustration I'll use .440" for the ball. The patch measures .024". So .440" + .024" + .024" = .49" and that ,meams there is the load has substantial patch compression in the grooves. This prevents "blow-by" and increases velocity a bit and usually helps accuracy.

I have a nice supply of pillow and mattress ticking and could use that and be happy, but snug loads just work better for me. I would really need to actually SEE your rifles muzzle to say for absolute certainty but I can't (sight unseen) legitimately tell the exact nature of your problem. But I trust you will solve it at some point.