Blackhorn issues

[illinoishunter]

So this was my second time out with my Optima LR 50cal. First time out I used white pellets figured that was safest as it was my first time ever shooting a muzzy. Today I got to put some rounds down range with both the muzzy and 220 slug gun. Slug gun is solid always has been. But today I switched over to blackhorn because of the clean up, I have the right breech plug. Started right off with 100gv, hornady 340g eldx, and federal 209a primers with an o-ring because previous outing hard horrible blow by and that completely solved it. First shot was 1/2in from bullseye but it blew apart the o-ring and left a horrendous residue that I still can't fully remove. Second shot left the o-ring intact but still fouled everything up again. So I figure I need more pressure on the primer so I moved the firing pin bushing out 1/4turn so It was just slightly protruding. Harder to close but tolerable and now the primers are really caring the bushing indentation. Ugh. Switch to cheddite primers which seal better with little blow bye but now my accuracy is opened up.

Then I thought blackhorn was supposed to be clean. No crud ring but the barrel was dirtier then the white hots. Had to clean every shot. Didn't try shooting a dirty barrel as I could feel the patch catching on the way down.

Suggestions??

 

[rangerod]

Wish I could help but I've never had any problems shooting blackhorn. Can go to the range and shoot fifteen or twenty rounds from the same gun and never touch the bore.

 

[illinoishunter]

Wish I could help but I've never had any problems shooting blackhorn. Can go to the range and shoot fifteen or twenty rounds from the same gun and never touch the bore.

What loads if you don't mind me asking? Light or heavy bullet. Light or heavy charge?

 

[ronlaughlin]

Blackhorn is filthy, but the mess is soft, and kinda is a lubricant. One need not swab to get the bullet through the mess.

One should either back out the firing pin bushing or use the o-ring. Doing both isn't necessary and could be causing your blow by issues.

 

[illinoishunter]

So this is normal for a single shot? Like I said I'm new to the muzzy world so I will take what you say. I'll work on my primer issues as that is annoying me. The barrel does clean pretty easy it's just very dirty.

 

[MrTom]

All black powder and subs is dirty. The plug will clean up with a solvent like Hoppes, not soap and water like black and the other subs. Personally, I think the plug has been over-torqued when installed initially and is now sitting too far forward when installed for shooting. With an o-ring that the firing pin should not imprint the bushing's wrench sockets. When you remove the plug, take a picture of the powder end face of it when its clean. The thin ridge that acts as the seal should not show any major flattening. If it does, the plug is too far forward when installed snug and you maybe need a new plug.

And yes, that would be a normal first patch for blackhorn.

I think you should try a different bullet and a sabot too. Try a black sabot and maybe a 250-300 grain XTP with that 100 grain volume charge after installing another o-ring. That 340 grain pill might be raising the pressure high enough to cause some of the problems. I have little faith in any power belt bullet.

 

[illinoishunter]

All black powder and subs is dirty. The plug will clean up with a solvent like Hoppes, not soap and water like black and the other subs. Personally, I think the plug has been over-torqued when installed initially and is now sitting too far forward when installed for shooting. With an o-ring that the firing pin should not imprint the bushing's wrench sockets. When you remove the plug, take a picture of the powder end face of it when its clean. The thin ridge that acts as the seal should not show any major flattening. If it does, the plug is too far forward when installed snug and you maybe need a new plug.

And yes, that would be a normal first patch for blackhorn.

I think you should try a different bullet and a sabot too. Try a black sabot and maybe a 250-300 grain XTP with that 100 grain volume charge after installing another o-ring. That 340 grain pill might be raising the pressure high enough to cause some of the problems. I have little faith in any power belt bullet.

I was thinking the same thing with that bullet being so heavy. I guess I should've backed the charge down to 80 and built up from there. I was short on time and not sure if I'll be able to get out again at 100yrds plus before opener. I'll have to grab some 50yrd range time and use some of the sst's and parkers I have.

I did use some monkey strength when tightening the breech plug the first time. I'll grab another to be sure. I want the nitride plug anyways. Is the CVA nitride plug ok or do I use something else.

 

[rangerod]

Wish I could help but I've never had any problems shooting blackhorn. Can go to the range and shoot fifteen or twenty rounds from the same gun and never touch the bore.

Out of my Optima I shoot 100grns of black horn (VOLUME) with a 300grn Thor bore rider and Federal 209A primer. Never shot any bullet over 300grns.I personally prefer solid copper for hunting.

 

[ElDiablo]

Yes your fouling looks typical. As has been said no need to worry about it while shooting. Just reload and shoot again (and again). For me BH209 leaves exponentially less fouling than the other options (aside from smokeless). I’ve shot 200-340 gr bullets regularly with BH209 and don’t see any variance in fouling.

When I examine a BH209 fouled bore with a borescope the majority of the fouling is in the first 6” (ahead of the bp) and then there is a little more that I see near the muzzle. Your rifle may be different.

At breech plug:


6” from bp:

 

[ronlaughlin]

See the soot inside the primer. This indicates the primer is distorted; thus leaking because of too tight of headspace. You can eliminate the o-ring, and adjust the firing pin bushing to 'crush' the primer a tad, and it will make a seal. Crush it too much, and you will distort it, and it will leak like it is doing here in the photo.

You can use a water based solvent to clean things up; they actually work better than the solvents used for smokeless powders, which many recommend for cleaning up the mess left by Blackhorn.

One shot of Blackhorn is all it takes to leave a bunch of soot. However one doesn't need to swab before loading the next shot.

 

[illinoishunter]

I appreciate all of your expertise truly. Thank you. I guess I was just expecting holy grail type results with clean firing. The bigger pieces of debris I was finding in the barrel still surprises me but I'll disregard and keep firing. I'll just keep working on getting my primer to seal up.

 

[illinoishunter]

Is their an actual process for me to set headspace on the primer. Or is just trial and error. I understand it changes with different primers as the cheddite primers didn't show the soot ring in the primer but my groups opened up. Only got 6 shots off in total though so small test group.

 

[Pathfinder60]

I was thinking the same thing with that bullet being so heavy. I guess I should've backed the charge down to 80 and built up from there. I was short on time and not sure if I'll be able to get out again at 100yrds plus before opener. I'll have to grab some 50yrd range time and use some of the sst's and parkers I have.

I did use some monkey strength when tightening the breech plug the first time. I'll grab another to be sure. I want the nitride plug anyways. Is the CVA nitride plug ok or do I use something else.

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If I were to be in the market for a new breech plug I would go with the SSK model with the replaceable vent liners. It's a much better design all the way around. You may or may not need an o ring to seal it. You'd have to try it out to see what works best. Here's a link to show you what I'm talking about.
https://www.opticsplanet.com/ssk-firearms-cva-2010-and-newer-accura-optima-wolf-breech-plug.html

 

[Ninering62]

If I were to be in the market for a new breech plug I would go with the SSK model with the replaceable vent liners. It's a much better design all the way around. You may or may not need an o ring to seal it. You'd have to try it out to see what works best. Here's a link to show you what I'm talking about.
https://www.opticsplanet.com/ssk-firearms-cva-2010-and-newer-accura-optima-wolf-breech-plug.html

I recently put an SSK BP in my Accura V2 .45. It really is a very well made upgrade from the factory BP - at a very fair price too.

 

[BigBoresmokepole]

I appreciate all of your expertise truly. Thank you. I guess I was just expecting holy grail type results with clean firing. The bigger pieces of debris I was finding in the barrel still surprises me but I'll disregard and keep firing. I'll just keep working on getting my primer to seal up.

Back down on the charge you have to much blowback. You need to fix the blowback

 

[illinoishunter]

Back down on the charge you have to much blowback. You need to fix the blowback

I'm going to try a 90gV load and a slightly lighter bullet. 275-290g probably. Bore driver and sabot load.

Ordered the ssk breech plug and some plastic gauge to see if I can find out primer headspace and ditch the o-ring. If not I got another 90 o-rings I can pop.

 

[ElDiablo]

I’m betting the new plug will solve your blowback issue. With the right plug and primers, it shouldn’t matter (within reason) what load you try in it.

 

[BigBoresmokepole]

I'm going to try a 90gV load and a slightly lighter bullet. 275-290g probably. Bore driver and sabot load.

Ordered the ssk breech plug and some plastic gauge to see if I can find out primer headspace and ditch the o-ring. If not I got another 90 o-rings I can pop.

I would start at 70gvol. And go up 5 until you get blowback.

 

[ronlaughlin]

Is their an actual process for me to set headspace on the primer. Or is just trial and error. I understand it changes with different primers as the cheddite primers didn't show the soot ring in the primer but my groups opened up. Only got 6 shots off in total though so small test group.

You have the idea .. back the bushing out in small steps. Measure the primer before you close the action on it, then again after you close the action. Call it about good when the primer is around 0.006" shorter.

 

[Muley Hunter]

You guys are really paying the price they want for BH now? I'll stick to using real black. Cleaning doesn't bother me.