Cooper of Montana - Muzzleloader

[ronald horne]

A picture is worth a thousand words. Thanks for all the information, too. I see quality and craftsmanship. And welcome to the forum. Glad to see someone that is active in the industry that is willing to give answers . Thanks again.

 

[ShawnT]

A picture is worth a thousand words. Thanks for all the information, too. I see quality and craftsmanship. And welcome to the forum. Glad to see someone that is active in the industry that is willing to give answers . Thanks again.

Couldn't agree more. Welcome to the forum Glenn! You all definitely use some beautiful wood.

Just one question of curiosity, Why just a black or sub powder rifle and not smokeless?

 

[Dutch]

Glenn,

Thanks for all the info. You will sell quite a few of these rifles.

 

[ENCORE50A]

A picture is worth a thousand words. Thanks for all the information, too. I see quality and craftsmanship. And welcome to the forum. Glad to see someone that is active in the industry that is willing to give answers . Thanks again.

Couldn't agree more. Welcome to the forum Glenn! You all definitely use some beautiful wood.

Just one question of curiosity, Why just a black or sub powder rifle and not smokeless?

Or, why only 150gr maximum capable?

 

[wolfer]

Cooper, Really nice looking rifle. What is orifice size? What length of flame channel from 209 to powder charge? Is breech plug have a vent liner or carbide to cut down on gas cutting the orifice? How much is spare/replacement breech plug. What make barrel? How many lands and grooves in barrel? Will one off guns be available with custom features? Will it be available in 45 and 54 caliber as well as 50?

It is certainly a worthwhile venture to produce a new product like your ML. Wishing you success in your venture into the market.

W

 

[GM54-120]

Welcome and im glad to see a new higher end option.

At this time there is no plans to change the style or dimensions of the Model 22 ML action.

Thats a shame really. A smaller action makes for a lighter and more compact rifle. My NULA is based on a Ultra Light Arms model 20 rimfire action. The action weighs in at 20oz with two rear locking lugs (if you include the bolt handle). The dog leg screw bolt retainer cant begin to match it in strength or ease of bolt removal. I have one of those also in my Savage MLII with a Pacnor 45cal barrel. Its a fine rifle but due to its weight it remains at home on opening day.

I must say though, your rifles are very attractive and priced fairly for a custom build.

 

[Montana Muzzleloader]

We toyed with the idea of using our rimfire action instead of the center fire but decided against it as we were not setting out to create a feather weight (or even a light weight) rifle. Our thinking was that a rifle with more similar dimensions & weight to the center fire rifles most folks are already using would appeal to more hunters.

One thing I sincerely hope we can achieve is to offer it in a synthetic stock. Chances are it would save little if any weight but would be more rugged. As it sits currently, a glass bedded laminate can be pretty darn rugged!

Someone hit on the price being high but not bad for a custom build. I AGREE. The rifles we build are not inexpensive. They are not everyone's cup of tea. However to build from scratch or to buy an existing rifle & bring it up to this level would cost a lot more than we are asking. That being said it's nearly $500 less expensive than the center fire that its based off of. I feel that is an achievement.

 

[Montana Muzzleloader]

Someone mentioned something about bolt lock up & ease of use pertaining to bolt removal.

The Remington Model 700 ML & Savage 110 MLII use(d) the dog leg groove & screw set up which requires a tool to remove the bolt. Our rifle uses the same kind of lock up in that our bolt has a dog leg groove (not visible until the bolt is removed from the action) but uses a traditional styled spring loaded bolt release/stop instead of a screw. It's bolt is removed in exactly the same manner as our (& just about everyone else's) center fire rifles. It would be just as easy or fast to remove as ANY bolt action's bolt. Our handle can also be considered a lug as it sits in a notch in the action when the bolt is in battery. Strength can be debated but speed & ease of operation can not.

 

[GM54-120]

What brand of barrel?

Many of the currently available customs are using Douglas, Shilen and even Krieger. One of mine has a Douglas 50cal Prem XX and the other has a Pacnor .458 SM grade. My next barrel will likely be a Brux.

 

[Busta]

Hello all,

My name is Glenn & I am one of the folks at Cooper Firearms who had a very direct hand in bringing our Model 22 ML to life. If anyone has any questions or would like any information not mentioned, please don't be afraid to ask. You are also of course welcome to call me directly at the shop & I'd be happy to talk about the rifles with you. If any of you are in the Western MT area, please drop by & I'd be happy to give you a tour where you can watch our rifles being made.

Welcome Glenn. You guys build some beautiful rifles, almost too pretty to hunt with.

Wish I had known about this last fall when I was out in Wyoming. I would have set aside a day to come up and check these rifles out. Maybe next time?

Don't be a stranger.

 

[Montana Muzzleloader]

Busta,
You are always welcome to come in for a tour!

Our first prototypes used Green Mountain barrels. The company that provides our center fire barrels is The Wilson Arms Co. located in Branford, CT. When we discovered that they were already set up to make a 50 cal 1-28 twist barrel we opted to give them a try. They shoot just as good or better than the Green Mountain barrels. A lot of folks have not heard of Wilson barrels, this is because they only sell to manufacturers & not direct to the public. Cooper Firearms, Rock River Arms, Colt, & I'm sure others as well use a bunch of their barrels.

Wilson barrels are definitely match grade. They are button rifled, lead lapped, air gauged, & double stress relieved at the Wilson plant. They are stress relieved after boring/rifling & after contouring. The interior finish of the bore is nice & shiny like a mirror when viewed through a bore scope!

I would encourage the curious to give Wilson a call & chat with them. The owner might answer the phone.

 

[cayuga]

Busta,
You are always welcome to come in for a tour!

Our first prototypes used Green Mountain barrels. The company that provides our center fire barrels is The Wilson Arms Co. located in Branford, CT. When we discovered that they were already set up to make a 50 cal 1-28 twist barrel we opted to give them a try. They shoot just as good or better than the Green Mountain barrels. A lot of folks have not heard of Wilson barrels, this is because they only sell to manufacturers & not direct to the public. Cooper Firearms, Rock River Arms, Colt, & I'm sure others as well use a bunch of their barrels.

Wilson barrels are definitely match grade. They are button rifled, lead lapped, air gauged, & double stress relieved at the Wilson plant. They are stress relieved after boring/rifling & after contouring. The interior finish of the bore is nice & shiny like a mirror when viewed through a bore scope!

I would encourage the curious to give Wilson a call & chat with them. The owner might answer the phone.

I have a Wilson barrel on one of my White Rifles. The others are Clark I believe. Excellent barrels both of them. The White barrels have a 1-24 twist the Wilson I think have 6 lands. And they are in .504 caliber. They are conical shooting machines. The Clark I think have 7 lands and again, hard to beat a good White rifle with either barrel. I have three of them. So if Wilson is making your barrels I am sure they are top quality. You might ask them about the 1-24 twist they made for White Rifles... they are the best conical shooting rifles I have ever shot.

 

[451 whitworth]

I think you mean Bo Clerke barrels cayuga.

 

[Busta]

I think you mean Bo Clerke barrels cayuga.

Yeah, he does. I also have Wilson and Bo Clerke barrels on my White Rifles, as well as Green Mountain Barrels on my Knights and H&R/NEF's. All excellent barrels, btw.

 

[Busta]

Busta,
You are always welcome to come in for a tour!

Our first prototypes used Green Mountain barrels. The company that provides our center fire barrels is The Wilson Arms Co. located in Branford, CT. When we discovered that they were already set up to make a 50 cal 1-28 twist barrel we opted to give them a try. They shoot just as good or better than the Green Mountain barrels. A lot of folks have not heard of Wilson barrels, this is because they only sell to manufacturers & not direct to the public. Cooper Firearms, Rock River Arms, Colt, & I'm sure others as well use a bunch of their barrels.

Wilson barrels are definitely match grade. They are button rifled, lead lapped, air gauged, & double stress relieved at the Wilson plant. They are stress relieved after boring/rifling & after contouring. The interior finish of the bore is nice & shiny like a mirror when viewed through a bore scope!

I would encourage the curious to give Wilson a call & chat with them. The owner might answer the phone.

Thanks for offer Glenn. I don't have any 1:28 Wilson Barrels, only 1:24 .504 caliber. What are your bore diameters on the lands and in the grooves?

 

[lptroll]

Nice, Need to win lottory

 

[Squeeze]

:yeah:

 

[bp45cal]

caution side spur head

 

[Montana Muzzleloader]

Thanks for keeping this thread going guys

We have had excellent luck with the Wilson Arms barrels in our center fires & it looks like they will be just as good to us in a muzzleloader.

Someone mentioned going to a 1-24 twist. I think this would be a good future change but demand/sales will dictate whether Wilson makes a button for it or not. As it sits 50 caliber out sells every other caliber by a large margin & most 50's are 1-28 twist. It certainly didn't hurt that Wilson already had a button artyman:

The Wilson barrel we are using is available in 416 SS or 4140 CM
8 lands/grooves, .500" bore / .510" groove diameter

 

[451 whitworth]

The Wilson barrel we are using is available in 416 SS or 4140 CM
8 lands/grooves, .500" bore / .510" groove diameter

Ahh, proper center fire .50 cal dimensions. Thank God. I wish every ML rifle makers would use use standard dimensions.