Flintlock Long Guns

[rfd]

Living in a 21st century dominated by percussion ignition sidelocks and inlines, I kinda buck the trend by exercising great interests in the firearms of the 18th century. Ya know, the Colonial periods of the F&I and Rev wars. This era was dominated by smoothbore rifles - military muskets and citizen farmer fowlers - and not rifled barrel guns. The main reasons for smoothies are twofold - smoothbores have twice or more the rate of fire as rifles (a military must) and can load both ball and shot (for both four legged and winged critters aike).

A gun could cost a pretty penny and frugal Colonials needed a firearm for food harvesting, defense, and warfare, and that perfectly defines a smoothbore. A military musket ran between .6x and .7x bore, whilst most farmers (literally, every citizen in Colonial times farmed) purchased a fowler in .5x to .6x bore. No question there were rifles and even small rifle brigades within both the American and British armies, but the warefare weapon of those times was the smoothbore.

A year or so back I wanted a flintlock rifle that was representative of the Colonial era, perhaps 'tween two major conflicts. I settled on a Kibler Colonial kit in .54 caliber. Unlike the offshore "screwdriver" kits, with their patent breech plugs, Kibler kits require some level of wood/metal competence, as well as proper tooling. Having built sidelocks before, this was not a problem for me. Knowing that I probably would eventually wind up selling off the gun, I bought the extra fancy tiger maple stock. The build went well, with only the usual minor complications that were all overcome. She turned out to be a good shooter and worthy of hunting and killing any Norte American game if need be. Sold it last year ... to fund yet another smoothbore

Anyhoo, I hope some of the above might spark an interest in learning more about, or acquiring, a good "rock lock".

 

[Idaholewis]

That is a BEAUTIFUL Long Rifle there Rob! AWESOME Craftsmanship! I LOVE That Tiger Stripe Wood!!!

I would be in trouble on something like that, I know me, I would try and Build it Today, so I could shoot it first thing Tomorrow Morning That’s no Joke! I Freely admit my Faults, Being patient Trying to Build something this Detailed is NOT my Strong Suit.

Check this out Rob, This is Forum Member @Curtis He is another Very Talented Fella! This has been FUN watching his progress on this Build
https://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/...ry-target-rifle-from-a-rod-england-kit.34066/

 

[Bushfire]

That is a beautiful rifle sir.

The other forum could change its name to the kibler forum with the love those rifles get. When they turn out that nice one could probably understand why.

 

[rfd]

To honest, while I can appreciate a trad muzzy with "bling" stock wood, that's really not my cup of tea. I prefer plain janes, and mostly smoothbores. This is my current .62 smoothie that was crafted by an amateur builder and I bought it knowing it needed some help but it turned out to be a basket case like some other guns I'd bought online. It's been fixed and though I've blank shot it a few times to check the lock, I'm just awaiting better weather for its baptismal under real fire. I also try to make as much of the trad muzzy accoutrements as possible, from bags to horns and rods.

 

[rfd]

That is a BEAUTIFUL Long Rifle there Rob! AWESOME Craftsmanship! I LOVE That Tiger Stripe Wood!!!

I would be in trouble on something like that, I know me, I would try and Build it Today, so I could shoot it first thing Tomorrow Morning That’s no Joke! I Freely admit my Faults, Being patient Trying to Build something this Detailed is NOT my Strong Suit.

Check this out Rob, This is Forum Member @Curtis He is another Very Talented Fella! This has been FUN watching his progress on this Build
https://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/...ry-target-rifle-from-a-rod-england-kit.34066/

Curist is a Master Gunsmith!

 

[eekjellander]

Your pretty talented yourself Rob and your shooting ain"t bad either ! Miss your makin smoke @ the range /Ed

 

[deermanok]

I started out with percussion lock guns, switched to inlines for a number of years. These last few years I've gone back to the traditional sidelock rifles. Real black powder, patched round balls. I would love to step into a flintlock at some point. I'd prefer a 45 caliber if I could find one in my budget.

 

[rfd]

There are offshore production trad muzzy guns and onshore customs.

ALL the offshore flavors will sport patent breech plugs, which require special cleaning and perhaps special fouling control during shooting. Some of their other components, particularly the lock, will not have as good a geometry as a good onshore lock (Kibler, Chambers, L&R, Davis, etc), although L&R does make a quality replacement lock (flint or cap) for most of the offshore brands. I've noticed that the prices of the offshore guns have increased, some by quite a lot, too, and .45 is almost impossible to find other than Pedersoli ... hold yer breath when you see the price tag, too.

 

[Idaholewis]

There are offshore production trad muzzy guns and onshore customs.

ALL the offshore flavors will sport patent breech plugs, which require special cleaning and perhaps special fouling control during shooting. Some of their other components, particularly the lock, will not have as good a geometry as a good onshore lock (Kibler, Chambers, L&R, Davis, etc), although L&R does make a quality replacement lock (flint or cap) for most of the offshore brands. I've noticed that the prices of the offshore guns have increased, some by quite a lot, too, and .45 is almost impossible to find other than Pedersoli ... hold yer breath when you see the price tag, too.

Rob, Have you seen the New Lyman Great Plains Rifle? (Signature series) Made by Pedersoli, have you heard any hands on experience with the Flintlock version?
https://www.lymanproducts.com/great-plains-signature-series

 

[Bushfire]

I have a question @rfd what is the reqlistic effective range on a deer sized target with a smooth bore?

 

[rfd]

Rob, Have you seen the New Lyman Great Plains Rifle? (Signature series) Made by Pedersoli, have you heard any hands on experience with the Flintlock version?
https://www.lymanproducts.com/great-plains-signature-series

Only read/saw Mike Nesbitt's review. That's a lotta loot for a patent breech gun. I'd rather go for a Kibler or TVM kit, but that's just my personal take.

 

[rfd]

I have a question @rfd what is the reqlistic effective range on a deer sized target with a smooth bore?

If you've really got the gun dialed in with a patched ball, and the shot parameters are realistic, maybe 70 yards - but for most, that would be a long shot, pun intended.

 

[Bushfire]

If you've really got the gun dialed in with a patched ball, and the shot parameters are realistic, maybe 70 yards - but for most, that would be a long shot, pun intended.

So more of an honest 50 yard gun?

Its a shame most of my hunting shots are further, they intrigue me a lot.

 

[rfd]

So more of an honest 50 yard gun?

Its a shame most of my hunting shots are further, they intrigue me a lot.

Yes, 50 yards is my personal max with a good smoothie. One can do better, longer, but that's typically the exception. I s'pose one could load with buckshot rather than patched ball, but that ain't my cuppa tea.

Is there really even a need for a 50 yard shot at medium sized game, let alone 70 or 100 yards?

Where is that era when hunters were woodsmen? When they went afield or into the deep woods and actually stalked their prey? I can understand the long shot might be required for some game, like speed goats, but even pronghorns can be collected at well under 50 yards, like even 20 yards and under, and with a trad stickbow and wood arrow. Been there a time or two on the plains of Wyoming.

It's all about hunting skill.

Today, it seems as if sniping from 200 yards to 1000 yards is on too many a hunter's hunting agenda. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the long shot, but with regards to the tool used and the target in my sights. I admit that these dayze I rarely gun hunt. I use a longbow and prefer stalking feral pigs. A challenge that makes the kill all the more worthy. A long shot for me is 20 yards. I've killed more than a few hogs.

My interest in trad muzzleloaders is part firearm and part history, particularly the 18th century, which means smoothbores. Learning to care and feed these firearms is also part of the enjoyment, as well as using them effectively, as was done mid 1700s. There is a lot of fascinating stuff to learn and employ, To each their own, it's all good.

 

[Bushfire]

Yes, 50 yards is my personal max with a good smoothie. One can do better, longer, but that's typically the exception. I s'pose one could load with buckshot rather than patched ball, but that ain't my cuppa tea.

Is there really even a need for a 50 yard shot at medium sized game, let alone 70 or 100 yards?

Where is that era when hunters were woodsmen? When they went afield or into the deep woods and actually stalked their prey? I can understand the long shot might be required for some game, like speed goats, but even pronghorns can be collected at well under 50 yards, like even 20 yards and under, and with a trad stickbow and wood arrow. Been there a time or two on the plains of Wyoming.

It's all about hunting skill.

Today, it seems as if sniping from 200 yards to 1000 yards is on too many a hunter's hunting agenda. I admit that these dayze I rarely gun hunt. I use a longbow and prefer stalking feral pigs. A challenge that makes the kill all the more worthy. A long shot for me is 20 yards. I've killed more than a few hogs.

My interest in trad muzzleloaders is part firearm and part history, particularly the 18th century, which means smoothbores. Learning to care and feed these firearms is also part of the enjoyment, as well as using them effectively, as was done mid 1700s. There is a lot of fascinating stuff to learn and employ, To each their own, it's all good.

We live in different worlds, there's no closed seasons, no weapon seasons or tag limits and the density is probably around 1 deer every square mile of habitat where I live (that's a generous estimate). Put all that together and you have deer as crafty as whitetail in low numbers getting hammered 12 months of the year. Shooting deer in close is great and I do think the closer the better but if someone is not capable or willing to take a 50 or even 100 yard shot opportunities are going to be very very few and far between.

Don't get me wrong, I've shot deer with archery gear and open sights in close locally, but where I am you measure number of hunts between deer sightings, not vice versa.

If you're ever in this part of the world I'll happily let you loose for a few days worth of hunting. Sounds like you would be the type of person that would appreciate the challenge of hunting here.

 

[rfd]

We live in different worlds, there's no closed seasons, no weapon seasons or tag limits and the density is probably around 1 deer every square mile of habitat where I live (that's a generous estimate). Put all that together and you have deer as crafty as whitetail in low numbers getting hammered 12 months of the year. Shooting deer in close is great and I do think the closer the better but if someone is not capable or willing to take a 50 or even 100 yard shot opportunities are going to be very very few and far between.

Don't get me wrong, I've shot deer with archery gear and open sights in close locally, but where I am you measure number of hunts between deer sightings, not vice versa.

If you're ever in this part of the world I'll happily let you loose for a few days worth of hunting. Sounds like you would be the type of person that would appreciate the challenge of hunting here.

Dunno where yer located but I hear ya and agree. This is where I'd want a good 6.5 Creedmore bolt gun, with a proper load, and a good scope to get the deed done, if making meat were the priority. That's the other most important part - the core reason for hunting, and the tools chosen to get the job done. For me to be hunting in yer land, my flintlock smoothbore would be a novelty joke and definitely not a tool of choice. If traditional was the word, this is where I'd be looking for a Lewis-built cap gun that could easily do 300 yards with a patched slick on top of quality black powder.

 

[mulemauler]

If I had to sell all but one long gun, I keep my .62 (20 gauge) smoothie. It will keep patched round ball in a pie plate at 50-60 yards all day long and with shot has taken squirrels rabbits and turkey, plus is just FUN to shoot.

 

[rfd]

If I had to sell all but one long gun, I keep my .62 (20 gauge) smoothie. It will keep patched round ballView attachment 13272 in a pie plate at 50-60 yards all day long and with shot has taken squirrels rabbits and turkey, plus is just FUN to shoot.

And a beauty she do be!

 

[Curtis]

Curist is a Master Gunsmith!

Thanks for the kind words, RFD! Here are some old posts of American longrifles that I have built, you might enjoy a look:
Flintlock Long Guns
Squirrel Rifle

Curtis

 

[rfd]

Thanks for the kind words, RFD! Here are some old posts of American longrifles that I have built, you might enjoy a look:
Flintlock Long Guns
Squirrel Rifle

Curtis

Fabulous craftsmanship, Curtis!