Help choosing a rifle for Montana weapons restrictions

[Squint]

"Tradition" and "traditional" are pretty vague ways to describe anything. They are very subjective ideas and can be used for almost anything. Considering current attention spans an Apple iphone could be considered a "traditional" cell phone. A lever action rifle has been around seemingly forever by comparison and some might call it traditional. Compare any muzzleloader to a bow, and how long those have been used, and it would barely seem to be a tradition.
p.s. im just being a devils advocate here. i dont truly have an opinion about traditional hunting seasons.

Below are the regulations for the use of primitive weapons in Montana's special seasons and in specific areas. If you want to hunt the general season in Montana, the muzzleloader restrictions do not apply and you can use any kind of muzzleloader or high-powered rifle including 22 long rifle. We know that's not cricket, but it is legal. I've never seen nothing in the regulations, so apparently you could sneak up and stabbed them with a knife If you're so inclined. Cross bows, regular archery, all all legal during the general season. The ones listed below are just for what they are intended to be.
Squint

Muzzleloader Heritage Hunting Season Lawful Weapons 87-1-304(9): Plain lead projectiles and a muzzleloading rifle that is charged with loose black powder, loose pyrodex, or an equivalent loose black powder substitute, and ignited by a flintlock, wheel lock, matchlock, or percussion mechanism using a percussion or musket cap. The muzzleloading rifle must be a minimum of .45 caliber and may not have more than two barrels. Additionally, 87-6-401(1), a hunter may not use a muzzleloading rifle that requires insertion of a cap or primer into the open breech of the barrel, is capable of being loaded from the breech, or is mounted with an optical magnification device. Use of prepared paper or metallic cartridges, sabots, gas checks, or other similar power and range-enhancing manufactured loads that enclose the projectile from the rifling or bore of the firearm is also prohibited.

Muzzleloader (this definition is strictly for the use of muzzloaders in weapons restriction areas. See the Muzzleloader Heritage Season Lawful Weapons section on page 24 for information regarding hunting during the Dec 11 - 19 heritage muzzloader season) • Must not be capable of being loaded from the breech of the barrel; • May not be loaded with any preprepared paper or metallic cartridges; • must be charged with black powder, pyrodex, or an equivalent; • Must be ignited by a percussion, flintlock, matchlock, or wheelock mechanism; • Must be a minimum of .45 caliber; • May have no more than two barrels; • Must only use plain lead projectiles; • Sabots or other similar power and range-enhancing manufactured loads that enclose the projectile from the rifling or bore of the firearm are prohibited. “Skirts” or gas checks on the base of a projectile are acceptable.

 

[AfricaDouble]

Interesting. My Boss and I are talking about Montana for 2022. He was just there in 21.

Prb or Real Bullet in my Double barrel .58is what I’d very much prefer… until it rains . The Knight ultra lite sure is neat.

 

[Bushfire]

Interesting. My Boss and I are talking about Montana for 2022. He was just there in 21.

Prb or Real Bullet in my Double barrel .58is what I’d very much prefer… until it rains . The Knight ultra lite sure is neat.

I've hunted in the rain with my caplock, I just keep something over the nipple e.g. my coat. Others use cling wrap or something like crisco around the nipple. Having said that, in the rain I don't do anything to my inline.

But if it rains I just take a centrefire, pros to no weapon specific seasons!

 

[BadgerRidge]

Here's the flyer explaining this year's Montana special Muzzle loader season https://fwp.mt.gov/binaries/content/assets/fwp/hunt/muzzleloader-flyer-2021.pdf

From my quick look:

1 seems like a new thing, added on to the end of the season.
2 seems to prohibit inlines and/or 209s
3 requires lead bullets (which means round balls, conicals, etc... just has to be lead... no gas checks of any sort.)

I find adding more seasons and special seasons to be a good thing, but how Montana has gone about restricting the firearms is very disappointing. I don't like the 'purists' getting to write regulations. Hunt how you want, but don't force it on others.

Please show me where a lead projectile is safer than a jacketed one, and perhaps you can change my mind. But I don't see how that is good for the animal receiving the projectile: Jacketed modern bullets produce quicker more humane kills across a wider range of performance. And they are not more or less safe than solid led. More over, its probably better for the environment to use solid copper projectiles if you really want to split hairs.

Please show me where a side lock is more safe than an inline... or a leaky non sealed nipple is more safe than a sealed up 209.

I keep saying safe, because that is about as far as the goverment regulators should be looking at stuff... what is safe or not.. Any other regulations should be focused on humanly removing the proper number of animals at the proper time from the herd. These sort of 'tradtionalist' rule makers really piss me off: focus on safety and herd management... that is it.

I blogged about this years ago at my website: A call for action for Muzzle Loader rules, explanation of our 700 ML 209 primer conversion kit

Oh and for you traditionalists/supporters of crazy rules like these... remember the current Montana rules ban gas checks of any form... including sabots...

How do they affect safety?

What about paper patching?

Isn't Paper patching an old time gas check technique?

How long does it have to exist to become traditional (as someone already asked)?

Isn't patching a round ball a type of gas check? Why would it be allowed but any others are not?

How does all these restrictions help or hurt getting new participants into the sport?

(edited to add more thoughts, questions, etc)

 

[Squint]

Here's the flyer explaining this year's Montana special Muzzle loader season https://fwp.mt.gov/binaries/content/assets/fwp/hunt/muzzleloader-flyer-2021.pdf

From my quick look:

1 seems like a new thing, added on to the end of the season.
2 seems to prohibit inlines and/or 209s
3 requires lead bullets (which means round balls, conicals, etc... just has to be lead... no gas checks of any sort.

I find adding more seasons and special seasons to be a good thing, but how Montana has gone about restricting the firearms is very disappointing. I don't like the 'purists' getting to write regulations. Hunt how you want, but don't force it on others.

Please show me where a lead projectile is safer than a jacketed one, and perhaps you can change my mind. But I don't see how that is good for the animal receiving the projectile: Jacketed modern bullets produce quicker more humane kills across a wider range of performance. And they are not more or less safe than solid led. More over, its probably better for the environment to use solid copper projectiles if you really want to split hairs.

Please show me where a side lock is more safe than an inline... or a leaky non sealed nipple is more safe than a sealed up 209.

I keep saying safe, because that is about as far as the goverment regulators should be looking at stuff... what is safe or not.. Any other regulations should be focused on humanly removing the proper number of animals at the proper time from the herd. These sort of 'tradtionalist' rule makers really piss me off: focus on safety and herd management... that is it.

I blogged about this years ago at my website: A call for action for Muzzle Loader rules, explanation of our 700 ML 209 primer conversion kit

Oh and for you traditionalists/supporters of crazy rules like these... remember the current Montana rules ban gas checks of any form... including sabots...

How do they affect safety?

What about paper patching?

Isn't Paper patching an old time gas check technique?

How long does it have to exist to become traditional (as someone already asked)?

Isn't patching a round ball a type of gas check? Why would it be allowed but any others are not?

How does all these restrictions help or hurt getting new participants into the sport?

(edited to add more thoughts, questions, etc)

Several years ago I asked one of the fish and game personnel how come the different lengths of seasons between archery and rifle and this was their explanation. Besides using hunting to control game numbers, it's also to provide the most hours of recreation for the most people. If the only purpose was containing numbers then everyone would be limited to a high-powered rifle with a scope and other enhancements to reduce those numbers.
To provide hours of recreation for myself, I also bow hunt and have been spending up to 30 days pursuing elk and deer, and I'm not alone. If and when I do go rifle hunting for an antelope with my scoped 270, I gently spend 4 to 6 hours and bring the goat home. This year I put some limitations on it and used a 45 caliber percussion muzzleloader with factory iron sights, patched round ball, and I spent at least 20 hours and I didn't get one. That's probably a plus, for the hours of recreation that I had, and I did save one antelope. Our numbers aren't that high, at this time, so I thought that was only fair too. I had happened to draw one of those coveted Tags that are only available by drawing. Besides our own right to choose how we want to hunt, we are also regulated by state and federal regulations. That's probably a good thing.
Squint

 

[MrTom]

To provide hours of recreation for myself, I also bow hunt and have been spending up to 30 days pursuing elk and deer, and I'm not alone. If and when I do go rifle hunting for an antelope with my scoped 270, I gently spend 4 to 6 hours and bring the goat home. This year I put some limitations on it and used a 45 caliber percussion muzzleloader with factory iron sights, patched round ball, and I spent at least 20 hours and I didn't get one. That's probably a plus, for the hours of recreation that I had, and I did save one antelope. Our numbers aren't that high, at this time, so I thought that was only fair too. I had happened to draw one of those coveted Tags that are only available by drawing. Besides our own right to choose how we want to hunt, we are also regulated by state and federal regulations. That's probably a good thing.
Squint

Lots of wisdom in this.

 

[BadgerRidge]

Several years ago I asked one of the fish and game personnel how come the different lengths of seasons between archery and rifle and this was their explanation. Besides using hunting to control game numbers, it's also to provide the most hours of recreation for the most people. If the only purpose was containing numbers then everyone would be limited to a high-powered rifle with a scope and other enhancements to reduce those numbers.
To provide hours of recreation for myself, I also bow hunt and have been spending up to 30 days pursuing elk and deer, and I'm not alone. If and when I do go rifle hunting for an antelope with my scoped 270, I gently spend 4 to 6 hours and bring the goat home. This year I put some limitations on it and used a 45 caliber percussion muzzleloader with factory iron sights, patched round ball, and I spent at least 20 hours and I didn't get one. That's probably a plus, for the hours of recreation that I had, and I did save one antelope. Our numbers aren't that high, at this time, so I thought that was only fair too. I had happened to draw one of those coveted Tags that are only available by drawing. Besides our own right to choose how we want to hunt, we are also regulated by state and federal regulations. That's probably a good thing.
Squint

Glad you are at peace with this. I for one am not at peace with unreasonable restrictions on hunting rights that vary from state to state. I'm convinced it is not done for the good of the people nor the state's game animal resources.

Politicians get political because they are allowed to. Doesn't make it right, nor does it make it good.

We have hunting regulations to do two things; make it safe, and make sure the right animals are taken at the right time.

If you allow political actions, or others (like regulators) to decide your recreation habits and methods, I'd suggest that you are allowing politics of some sort to compromise one of the following (and do so for some improper intangible):

1; Personal freedom
2: Safety
3: Effective and ethical means to managing your game animals (or other public resources if we were to broaden our discussion to something besides hunting).

By definition government controls limit personal freedom. They should only do so to increase #2 and #3. After that its always a bad idea

So again, like I asked in my other post... please show me where these rules increase #2 or #3 above inorder to justify reducing #1..... I'm convinced these restrictions only make the sport less safe and are sacrificing all three for some perceived recreation or purist ideal. And actually scare away many folks because they cannot afford to have "one of each" in their gun safe... or have been given an in line... or... just don't understand all the new lingo, or --- I could go on.

Muzzle loader Firearm rules should never go beyond something simple like:

- loads powder and bullet from the muzzle
- has one (or perhaps 2) barrels
- No magazine, rotating cylinder, etc
- minimum caliber bore
- minimum weight projectile (or caliber)
- minimum black powder charge (or equivalent)
- No pistols (too little energy to be effective in most folks hands at most practical ranges)
- sometimes it may be smart to limit to iron sights.... but I'm not convinced here...

Anything more is way beyond what the government's role should be.

But if you aren't convinced and still back a flint lock/side lock/percussion cap/ unsealed breech / lead projectile only limitation, and think its good for recreation... look at it from the reverse perspective, and use your same logic... to maximize recreation why should you restrict recreation with such narrow definitions and remove a large portion of hunters who don't own those guns?

Or how is having less restrictive rules keeping you from hunting with your side lock and round ball? Why do you feel the need to keep the new guy with the inline his father inlaw left him from going out to the woods during the muzzle loader season?

Or are you trying to create a market for a particular product or sort of person and not doing the people as a whole a service?... and that is politics.

My .02 USD

 

[Squint]

Glad you are at peace with this. I for one am not at peace with unreasonable restrictions on hunting rights that vary from state to state. I'm convinced it is not done for the good of the people nor the state's game animal resources.

Politicians get political because they are allowed to. Doesn't make it right, nor does it make it good.

We have hunting regulations to do two things; make it safe, and make sure the right animals are taken at the right time.

If you allow political actions, or others (like regulators) to decide your recreation habits and methods, I'd suggest that you are allowing politics of some sort to compromise one of the following (and do so for some improper intangible):

1; Personal freedom
2: Safety
3: Effective and ethical means to managing your game animals (or other public resources if we were to broaden our discussion to something besides hunting).

By definition government controls limit personal freedom. They should only do so to increase #2 and #3. After that its always a bad idea

So again, like I asked in my other post... please show me where these rules increase #2 or #3 above inorder to justify reducing #1..... I'm convinced these restrictions only make the sport less safe and are sacrificing all three for some perceived recreation or purist ideal. And actually scare away many folks because they cannot afford to have "one of each" in their gun safe... or have been given an in line... or... just don't understand all the new lingo, or --- I could go on.

Muzzle loader Firearm rules should never go beyond something simple like:

- loads powder and bullet from the muzzle
- has one (or perhaps 2) barrels
- No magazine, rotating cylinder, etc
- minimum caliber bore
- minimum weight projectile (or caliber)
- minimum black powder charge (or equivalent)
- No pistols (too little energy to be effective in most folks hands at most practical ranges)
- sometimes it may be smart to limit to iron sights.... but I'm not convinced here...

Anything more is way beyond what the government's role should be.

But if you aren't convinced and still back a flint lock/side lock/percussion cap/ unsealed breech / lead projectile only limitation, and think its good for recreation... look at it from the reverse perspective, and use your same logic... to maximize recreation why should you restrict recreation with such narrow definitions and remove a large portion of hunters who don't own those guns?

Or how is having less restrictive rules keeping you from hunting with your side lock and round ball? Why do you feel the need to keep the new guy with the inline his father inlaw left him from going out to the woods during the muzzle loader season?

Or are you trying to create a market for a particular product or sort of person and not doing the people as a whole a service?... and that is politics.

My .02 USD

A nation without laws is what they have in the Middle East and some of South America. No thanks for that kind of proposal, reasonable laws and restrictions are part of trying to be civilized . I've watched the rioters, from January 6 to those that think George Foreman is a hero, and I don't want no part of either one of them. Now, If you want to use any kind of muzzleloader you have, you can do so in general season, as I already mentioned. The restrictions are very few and I think You will find this suits your mode of hunting equipment just fine. If you want to join the few of us that are willing to operate under limitations, welcome aboard, otherwise we'll see you where restrictions are less bothersome, as some days I hunt there too. By the way, it was us muzzleloader hunters that asked for the restrictions that were placed on hunting that type of season. Our idea of the primitive equipment usage was equipment that had to be before cartridge loaded type rifles, or improvements on the equipment that was in use before that time that would've made them not available before. Now if you can't find that confusing enough, I can add to it.
Squint

 

[Wildrangeringreen]

A nation without laws is what they have in the Middle East and some of South America. No thanks for that kind of proposal, reasonable laws and restrictions are part of trying to be civilized . I've watched the rioters, from January 6 to those that think George Foreman is a hero, and I don't want no part of either one of them. Now, If you want to use any kind of muzzleloader you have, you can do so in general season, as I already mentioned. The restrictions are very few and I think You will find this suits your mode of hunting equipment just fine. If you want to join the few of us that are willing to operate under limitations, welcome aboard, otherwise we'll see you where restrictions are less bothersome, as some days I hunt there too. By the way, it was us muzzleloader hunters that asked for the restrictions that were placed on hunting that type of season. Our idea of the primitive equipment usage was equipment that had to be before cartridge loaded type rifles, or improvements on the equipment that was in use before that time that would've made them not available before. Now if you can't find that confusing enough, I can add to it.
Squint

according to Montana... you can't use a cloth patch with your ball "Use of prepared paper or metallic cartridges, sabots, gas checks or other similar power and range-enhancing manufactured loads that enclose the projectile from the rifling or bore of the firearm are prohibited".

Kinda defeats the purpose of a "heritage season" or whatever BS they are marketing it as lol, when you can't even use the most basic, traditional ammunition style lol. This is what happens when you have bureaucrats and politicians who have no clue about the things they are claiming the right to regulate, regulating things... a nation of laws - give me a break, the Saud's and the Taliban have laws too, that doesn't make them right. When you get done licking boots, let us know. Who are these "us muzzleloaders" you speak of, I haven't found too many that actually were consulted about it lol? Going into a Nuclear Power Plant to work on the reactor... when you don't know the first thing about Nuclear Reactors is not what I would call reasonable lol. Unreasonable people should neither be listened to nor obeyed. The whole "shut up and obey, otherwise you're an anarchist" bit get old after a while. Rant over

As far as rifles are concerned, you can go all over the place, it largely depends on the ranges you are going to hunt at. For a Longer distance set up, it's hard to go wrong with a fast twist (1:22 or faster) .45. That will let you lob some serious lead out there at serious ranges with authority. Conversely, you could also use pistol weight bullets for plinking around or as an "express load". A big bullet like NOE 459-500FN(467HP) and a little one like Accurate Molds 45-255S would work.

If you are looking for something that is 300yd and in, you could go with a .50, and use a bullet like Accurate Molds 50-255V for a light one and an AM 50-490S (but with a plain base) for a heavier bullet.

Something that is more set up for the 200 yard-in game could be something like a .58 or 20 bore (.625 +/-)rifle. Those cost money to shoot, but you can totally take anything in NA or Africa with them, if you load them up enough lol. I have yet to have any deer not recovered from my 20 bore rifle, the blood trails look like they were spray-painted with utility marking paint lol.

I like Cast Lead bullets, so that's what I recommended ($). If you don't want to cast your own, There are a few commercial options that basically boil down to the Great Plains bullet or TC Maxi's ($$). There are also a couple companies out there that cast a couple different molds in each caliber for you to then size to your bore ($$$).

 

[BadgerRidge]

<snipped> This is what happens when you have bureaucrats and politicians who have no clue about the things they are claiming the right to regulate, regulating things... a nation of laws - give me a break, the Saud's and the Taliban have laws too, that doesn't make them right. When you get done licking boots, let us know. Who are these "us muzzleloaders" you speak of, I haven't found too many that actually were consulted about it lol?

<snipped>

Well put.

 

[GM54-120]

Im just as guilty but its time to put an end to the off topic comments. The OP wanted suggestions for what rifle to buy to conform to the regs. A fast twist 45 sidelock shooting lead conicals covers all the seasons and meets all the requirements. It has more than enough energy to kill humanely well past 200 yards and its a well proven design (caliber and twist) for accuracy too. Pedersolli sells several 45s that would work or find a T/C sidelock and get a Rice 45cal 1-20 drop in barrel for it.

Anymore off topic posts after this will be deleted.

 

[Squint]

according to Montana... you can't use a cloth patch with your ball "Use of prepared paper or metallic cartridges, sabots, gas checks or other similar power and range-enhancing manufactured loads that enclose the projectile from the rifling or bore of the firearm are prohibited".

Kinda defeats the purpose of a "heritage season" or whatever BS they are marketing it as lol, when you can't even use the most basic, traditional ammunition style lol. This is what happens when you have bureaucrats and politicians who have no clue about the things they are claiming the right to regulate, regulating things... a nation of laws - give me a break, the Saud's and the Taliban have laws too, that doesn't make them right. When you get done licking boots, let us know. Who are these "us muzzleloaders" you speak of, I haven't found too many that actually were consulted about it lol? Going into a Nuclear Power Plant to work on the reactor... when you don't know the first thing about Nuclear Reactors is not what I would call reasonable lol. Unreasonable people should neither be listened to nor obeyed. The whole "shut up and obey, otherwise you're an anarchist" bit get old after a while. Rant over

As far as rifles are concerned, you can go all over the place, it largely depends on the ranges you are going to hunt at. For a Longer distance set up, it's hard to go wrong with a fast twist (1:22 or faster) .45. That will let you lob some serious lead out there at serious ranges with authority. Conversely, you could also use pistol weight bullets for plinking around or as an "express load". A big bullet like NOE 459-500FN(467HP) and a little one like Accurate Molds 45-255S would work.

If you are looking for something that is 300yd and in, you could go with a .50, and use a bullet like Accurate Molds 50-255V for a light one and an AM 50-490S (but with a plain base) for a heavier bullet.

Something that is more set up for the 200 yard-in game could be something like a .58 or 20 bore (.625 +/-)rifle. Those cost money to shoot, but you can totally take anything in NA or Africa with them, if you load them up enough lol. I have yet to have any deer not recovered from my 20 bore rifle, the blood trails look like they were spray-painted with utility marking paint lol.

I like Cast Lead bullets, so that's what I recommended ($). If you don't want to cast your own, There are a few commercial options that basically boil down to the Great Plains bullet or TC Maxi's ($$). There are also a couple companies out there that cast a couple different molds in each caliber for you to then size to your bore ($$$).

Not being the sharpest tack in the box, I called the local game Warden In my area and asked for clarification on using a patch round ball for the muzzleloader season, or any muzzleloader use. He referred me to the fish wildlife and parks website and I have copied the answer and I will post it down below. It's not too easy to read, my computer skills are limited but it's all in there.
Squint
Plainleadprojectile Thisisabullet,conicalor roundballprojectilethatismadeexclusivelyoflead.Bulletsmay nothaveanygaschecks,sabots,orothermanufacturedrangeor powerenhancingadditions. Round balls may be patched with a cloth patch. Thereisnorestrictionontheriflingtwistforthetraditional muzzleloaderseason.

 

[MrTom]

We're talking side locks here, right? Just how is anyone going check what's down the bore? I'd point the gun up at a 45 degree angle and pull the trigger and tell whoever that if they look over yonder a few hundred yards they might find what they're looking for,

 

[Okie Hog]

Few years ago during the Fort Sill primitive weapons season i watched the game warden as he checked a very nice buck. Game warden asked to see the rifle the hunter was using. The hunter pulled out a scoped sidelock. The buck was confiscated on the spot.

 

[Squint]

Im just as guilty but its time to put an end to the off topic comments. The OP wanted suggestions for what rifle to buy to conform to the regs. A fast twist 45 sidelock shooting lead conicals covers all the seasons and meets all the requirements. It has more than enough energy to kill humanely well past 200 yards and its a well proven design (caliber and twist) for accuracy too. Pedersolli sells several 45s that would work or find a T/C sidelock and get a Rice 45cal 1-20 drop in barrel for it.

Anymore off topic posts after this will be deleted.

All true, but if I would've been inclined to hunt the special muzzleloader season for elk, I would think you need more caliber. There's a few good things to be said for the patched round ball, and I would want it in a larger caliber than 45, either a 50 or a 54, But your 45, with a conical, I would think would be more than enough power, I don't know if that would be true at 200 yards unless you really loaded it heavy. I've already notified the Montana commission that I think the special muzzleloader season should be at an earlier date than December. It would make these type of firearms easier to use at a warmer time.

I do apologize for getting the topic off comment, the type of rifle is quite important here in Montana, where there are specific regulations on the firearm, and I thought it important to mention those specific regulations.

 

[Bushfire]

according to Montana... you can't use a cloth patch with your ball "Use of prepared paper or metallic cartridges, sabots, gas checks or other similar power and range-enhancing manufactured loads that enclose the projectile from the rifling or bore of the firearm are prohibited".

I don't see how that precludes the use of a cloth patch. Paper and metallic cartridges, and sabots are not cloth patches. Although it would be great, patches also don't improve the power or range of a ball.

 

[Wildrangeringreen]

I don't see how that precludes the use of a cloth patch. Paper and metallic cartridges, and sabots are not cloth patches. Although it would be great, patches also don't improve the power or range of a ball.

That's not true, drop an undersized ball down a barrel without a patch and see how that works out. Lost velocity=less range (not to mention, not great accuracy from the ball stripping off the rifling due to having a truly miniscule bearing surface). It also depends on the definition of "range-enhancing" they choose to go by (I haven't checked, but I doubt MT has a legal definition of "range-enhancing" on the books, though it's possible). Are we talking Practical, deer-accurate range? Maximum Theoretical range? Comfortable hunting range? The patching improves the first two, the third is between your ears (mostly).

In any event, the place I was looking at didn't include the explicit exemption for cloth patched round ball in the rules (jury's still out on paper (wasp nest or mfg'd) and leather, two other common patching/wadding materials for traditional guns). Mr. Squint graciously pasted the full rule a couple of replies above, albeit in a bit of a snarky manner .

 

[AfricaDouble]

Interesting. My boss and I may line up a hunt in Montana fir 2022. Yet I don’t think early December will be the time frame… as that’s when the special muzzleloader season is. Can’t imagine it would be fun hunting in 4’ of snow over mountains. They should have made that special season at a better time of the year.

Anyway- I just got done using my Lee REAL bullets in My .58 Kodiak. Not exactly “Heritage Old School traditional” yet No patch or Wad on Powder… Just Lead and Crisco (Hope that’s ok!) The 75gr of FFg placed Both a Patched Round ball and the REAL bullet at same POI at 50 and 80 yards, from offhand. I feel very confident I can extend that Further as I only used the Peep Ghost ring and still have a 3 leaf Express sight. With that sight I can flip up the correct leaf and see over the peep, for 100yards shot. Then the next higher leaf will probably get me to 125 yards. Depending on target size… I’m sure I can hit a Basketball at 100.

Im not sure, yet this must be uncommon for the Double barrel Kodiak- Yet honestly I’m getting 3” groups at 80yards off hand with out issue from the 445gr .58 cal 8BHN lead REAL Bullet. No bs- Standing Off hand, Yet I was using the sling and A single shooting stick for accuracy grouping.

The Pedersoli Percussion Kodiak is available in .50,54,58 and Shoulder displacing.72

And that’s my Suggestion for a rifle/ I may just find out in 2022 how well that plan works.

I did call last week and asked the Fish and Wildlife department if that Rifle with What I want to shoot out of it is legal- response was a definitive Yes

Ps- Do keep in mind, North Montana does have one of the largest Grizzly Bear populations in the Us. Would very much not want to remember that the incorrect way… Suddenly charging at me!

Here are some 50-80 yard targets

 

[Squint]

Interesting. My boss and I may line up a hunt in Montana fir 2022. Yet I don’t think early December will be the time frame… as that’s when the special muzzleloader season is. Can’t imagine it would be fun hunting in 4’ of snow over mountains. They should have made that special season at a better time of the year.

Anyway- I just got done using my Lee REAL bullets in My .58 Kodiak. Not exactly “Heritage Old School traditional” yet No patch or Wad on Powder… Just Lead and Crisco (Hope that’s ok!) The 75gr of FFg placed Both a Patched Round ball and the REAL bullet at same POI at 50 and 80 yards, from offhand. I feel very confident I can extend that Further as I only used the Peep Ghost ring and still have a 3 leaf Express sight. With that sight I can flip up the correct leaf and see over the peep, for 100yards shot. Then the next higher leaf will probably get me to 125 yards. Depending on target size… I’m sure I can hit a Basketball at 100.

Im not sure, yet this must be uncommon for the Double barrel Kodiak- Yet honestly I’m getting 3” groups at 80yards off hand with out issue from the 445gr .58 cal 8BHN lead REAL Bullet. No bs- Standing Off hand, Yet I was using the sling and A single shooting stick for accuracy grouping.

The Pedersoli Percussion Kodiak is available in .50,54,58 and Shoulder displacing.72

And that’s my Suggestion for a rifle/ I may just find out in 2022 how well that plan works.

I did call last week and asked the Fish and Wildlife department if that Rifle with What I want to shoot out of it is legal- response was a definitive Yes

Ps- Do keep in mind, North Montana does have one of the largest Grizzly Bear populations in the Us. Would very much not want to remember that the incorrect way… Suddenly charging at me!

Here are some 50-80 yard targets
View attachment 18464

GOOD JOB! That is very good shooting, especially offhand.

 

[AfricaDouble]

Do keep in mind, I had my arm wrapped in the sling and a single shooting stick for stability… kinda like “Benching it” for accuracy. If you look at the bullseyes- you can see the tight groups at 50 yards I covered. Not bad for a Double…. Not bad for a single actually