Hornady Great Plains for Elk?

[idahoron]

i have had the same experience with the "no excuses" bullets. Reported size is not the actual size.

Or weight, I've seen + - 10 grains difference in a single box.

 

[idahobubba]

I settled the No Excuses 460gr with 90grains of Pyrodex select and have killed a spike at 170 and a cow at 188 neither went 50yrds and I tried federal bore locks and powerbelts prior with no success after hitting them. anyway just my 2 cents but a very interesting subject here with lots of great input..

 

[brad502a]

I will add that he refunded my money promptly after telling me I was full of ****. I mentioned that I have verified the sizes with 3 different 0-1" micrometers. Obviously they were all liars as well.

 

[Patched]

i have had the same experience with the "no excuses" bullets. Reported size is not the actual size.

I learned this from lead bullet pistol shootint/loading…
If you’re going shoot lead bullets you have to be in total control of:
1) the alloy hardness
2) the exact sizing
3) the bullet lube

These 3 things can not be left to chance or you’re just spinning your wheels.

my 2 cents

 

[WP79Vet]

I settled the No Excuses 460gr with 90grains of Pyrodex select and have killed a spike at 170 and a cow at 188 neither went 50yrds and I tried federal bore locks and powerbelts prior with no success after hitting them. anyway just my 2 cents but a very interesting subject here with lots of great input..

Thanks for responding - every experience contributes to the pool of knowledge - and having an accessible online pool of knowledge is helpful to everybody, which is one of the reasons that these forums are worthwhile.

 

[WP79Vet]

I learned this from lead bullet pistol shootint/loading…
If you’re going shoot lead bullets you have to be in total control of:
1) the alloy hardness
2) the exact sizing
3) the bullet lube

These 3 things can not be left to chance or you’re just spinning your wheels.

my 2 cents

I'm just getting into shooting full-bore lead bullets.... but in the research I've done online, everybody who seems to get great results with full-bore lead conicals is very careful to control all three parameters that you mention - and it seems that every gun likes something that's a little different. Could that be why there aren't many commercial bullet choices, and why sabots are so popular?

 

[Patched]

I'm just getting into shooting full-bore lead bullets.... but in the research I've done online, everybody who seems to get great results with full-bore lead conicals is very careful to control all three parameters that you mention - and it seems that every gun likes something that's a little different. Could that be why there aren't many commercial bullet choices, and why sabots are so popular?

IdahoRon and IdahoLewis are the experts here with fullbore lead bullets and paper patching…
I played extensively with lead bullets in big bore handguns years ago so I’m aware of the pitfalls of sizing, alloys and lubes…there is an optimum combination for each gun…get it wrong and you get lopsided bullets, barrel leading and lube failures…
and of course the standard “totally different results” six months later when it’s 92 degrees instead of 52 degrees and your “tempered” lead bullets have degraded in hardness by 5 points on your hardness tester.

Sabots deliver acceptably good accuracy for most of us without having to jump down the deep rabbit hole of bullet casting science, alchemy and equipment gathearing.

 

[WP79Vet]

IdahoRon and IdahoLewis are the experts here with fullbore lead bullets and paper patching…
I played extensively with lead bullets in big bore handguns years ago so I’m aware of the pitfalls of sizing, alloys and lubes…there is an optimum combination for each gun…get it wrong and you get lopsided bullets, barrel leading and lube failures…
and of course the standard “totally different results” six months later when it’s 92 degrees instead of 52 degrees and your “tempered” lead bullets have degraded in hardness by 5 points on your hardness tester.

Sabots deliver acceptably good accuracy for most of us without having to jump down the deep rabbit hole of bullet casting science, alchemy and equipment gathearing.

For Montana's Heritage ML season in early December, we have to use sidelocks with full-bore, all-lead bullets - no sabots, skirts, etc. allowed. My property backs up to a big piece of state land that deer and elk often use heavily while transitioning from fall to winter range, so there's big motivation for me to be set up for the Heritage ML season. Besides, I love shooting the Renegade I bought this fall - to the extent that I may hunt with it during the general any weapon season in October and November - and I'm enjoying the challenge of finding a good hunting bullet.

 

[Harleysboss]

Go back up to the bullet casting section and have a look at the Accurate 50-415 I thread. If you cast bullets, that little bullet really shines in the TC Renegade barrels. May need to get a size die and cast them at near pure lead or just slightly more 40-1 alloy. Your 50 cal TC bore is pretty darn close to .501 diameter. (Assuming you have a 50cal?) Casting for a muzzleloader is not witchcraft. If I can do it, anyone can. The elk will really hate you if you go this route. 80 grains of your preferred BP an over bore size dry wool wad and the properly sized 50-415I bullet from Accurate and a soft BP lube (not runny). Load, shoot, adjust sights to center, rinse and repeat. Now if you have a 54 cal, well get the 54 cal version.

 

[Hatchet Jack]

Again, I recommend the Bullshop 460 gr NEX conicals. It's what I shoot from my Renegades. They are made in your home state of Montana. Last batch I ordered with shipping they ended up being about .50 cents a bullet. Can't beat that price for a quality made conical. Not worth pouring my own at that price.

 

[WP79Vet]

Again, I recommend the Bullshop 460 gr NEX conicals. It's what I shoot from my Renegades. They are made in your home state of Montana. Last batch I ordered with shipping they ended up being about .50 cents a bullet. Can't beat that price for a quality made conical. Not worth pouring my own at that price.

Everything I read about The Bullshop and their products is positive. I've exchanged a few emails with them, and they are very prompt in responding.

The Bullshop 460 NEX conicals are great-looking bullets, but I haven't found any dimensions for them. So... here are a few questions:

Are you having your 460 NEX bullets cast from pure lead?

How long are the 460 NEX bullets?

Are all the driving bands on the 460 NEX bullets the same diameter, and if so, what is it?

If the 460 NEX is a "tapered" design like most other commercially available full-bore conicals (ie with smaller driving bands towards the base and the biggest driving band at the top), what are the diameters of the top and bottom driving bands?

Do you have stock 1-48 twist barrels on your Renegades? I worry about stabilizing a bullet that long with a 1-48 twist....

Thanks!

 

[WP79Vet]

Go back up to the bullet casting section and have a look at the Accurate 50-415 I thread. If you cast bullets, that little bullet really shines in the TC Renegade barrels. May need to get a size die and cast them at near pure lead or just slightly more 40-1 alloy. Your 50 cal TC bore is pretty darn close to .501 diameter. (Assuming you have a 50cal?) Casting for a muzzleloader is not witchcraft. If I can do it, anyone can. The elk will really hate you if you go this route. 80 grains of your preferred BP an over bore size dry wool wad and the properly sized 50-415I bullet from Accurate and a soft BP lube (not runny). Load, shoot, adjust sights to center, rinse and repeat. Now if you have a 54 cal, well get the 54 cal version.

I may end up getting into casting.... but need to wait until wife Tina and I are settled into Montana. That will take a couple of years because I need to sell property in WA, buy and put more rental property into service here in MT, build a shop, machine shed, woodshed, a garage, etc. at our new MT home.... All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy, though: I will be hunting, fishing, shooting and so on as much as I can while settling in!

The 50-415I is a great-looking bullet, as are several others in Accurate's catalog, so I'm very interested in getting into casting, but until the settling in is done, I am exploring all options.

 

[Hatchet Jack]

Everything I read about The Bullshop and their products is positive. I've exchanged a few emails with them, and they are very prompt in responding.

The Bullshop 460 NEX conicals are great-looking bullets, but I haven't found any dimensions for them. So... here are a few questions:

Are you having your 460 NEX bullets cast from pure lead?

How long are the 460 NEX bullets?

Are all the driving bands on the 460 NEX bullets the same diameter, and if so, what is it?

If the 460 NEX is a "tapered" design like most other commercially available full-bore conicals (ie with smaller driving bands towards the base and the biggest driving band at the top), what are the diameters of the top and bottom driving bands?

Do you have stock 1-48 twist barrels on your Renegades? I worry about stabilizing a bullet that long with a 1-48 twist....

Thanks!

You should talk to Dan at Bullshop with your questions and concerns. If he is not available call NASA.

 

[Trapper53]

I'm guessing you know that was me. It pretty much has to be, right? I'm sure if you searched my posts you will find exactly the information you are asking about. But again that was before I shot better bullets.

Prior to 2009, I used the 410 gr HGP after Idaho made more strict muzzleloader rules. I was using the HGP bullets because of accuracy in my guns, and i had shot several deer with them. Some very large muledeer.
They were very accurate bullets in guns that like them. Like I said before. I shot several deer and at the time I believed they were the best that i had tested. As i think about it now, a lot of my opinion back then was probably based on accuracy.
When shooting deer with the bullets they never exited. We were finding almost every HGP bullet we shot. Few ever went all the way through. I'm sure there were shoulder shots at times.
I guess what I was seeing was no consistency when it came to how they were working on game. When we woukd hit deer they mostly ran.
I know that most had to be tracked. Back then I never took a first shot on game over 150 yards. That is something I try to still do now even though I use far better bullets.

In 2009 I started to use my Lee 500S&W bullets. That was when I realized how poor the HGP really were. I was shooting elk in the shoulder and finding the bullet in the hips. Broad side elk shots plowed through. On deer the Lee 500S&W bullets were never found, ever. Shooting through shoulders. Shooting length wise. And when they hit you hear a loud whop. Most of the time taking the animal off it's feet. Both deer and elk.
It was also about this time when I started testing lead for hardness.
The HGP is a super soft bullet in the terms of BHN.
The time frame you are speaking about 2002 to 2006? That was 20 ish years ago. The last HGP bullet I shot was in October 2008. The two point was shot about 100 yards or less. That deer ran and was tracked.
I've shot 23 head of elk total. I've seen at least twice that many killed by family and friends.
Since 2009 I've changed my mind on muzzleloader bullets. I would think that in the last 20 years you have changed your mind on things that you thought were true back then. Maybe not?

My friend Dave Silcock works for the Idaho Fish and Game in the Salmon area. I walked him through switching to the Lee 500S&W bullet. Since then in the last couple years him, his family, and friends have killed 8 head of elk with those bullets. Most blow through and he is using pure lead. You could call him and talk to him about his thoughts on elk bullets.

In the last 20 years no excuse bullets has became a well known and well used bullet when it comes to elk hunting.
Back when I tested them. That was before 2009. I shot them greased and paper patched. They shot pretty well both ways but quality control was not great.

As I said before I'm sure that guys use them and I'm sure that elk are killed with them. But there are better bullets.

Idahoron, Very interested in your comments. I am fairly new to muzzleloading and would like to try the SW bullets. Where is the best place to visit, to learn the ins and outs of resizing bullets?
Who do you buy your bullets from?
Thanks for your time.

 

[edmehlig]

Everything I read about The Bullshop and their products is positive. I've exchanged a few emails with them, and they are very prompt in responding.

The Bullshop 460 NEX conicals are great-looking bullets, but I haven't found any dimensions for them. So... here are a few questions:

Are you having your 460 NEX bullets cast from pure lead?

The specs for the 460Nex is almost identical to my 45-465M mold with Accurate Molds.
How long are the 460 NEX bullets?

Are all the driving bands on the 460 NEX bullets the same diameter, and if so, what is it?

If the 460 NEX is a "tapered" design like most other commercially available full-bore conicals (ie with smaller driving bands towards the base and the biggest driving band at the top), what are the diameters of the top and bottom driving bands?

Do you have stock 1-48 twist barrels on your Renegades? I worry about stabilizing a bullet that long with a 1-48 twist....

Thanks!

 

[edmehlig]

The specs for the 460Nex is almost identical to my 45-465M mold with Accurate Molds.


http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-465M

 

[WP79Vet]

The specs for the 460Nex is almost identical to my 45-465M mold with Accurate Molds.


http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-465M

Thanks - I'll have a look.

 

[idahoron]

Idahoron, Very interested in your comments. I am fairly new to muzzleloading and would like to try the SW bullets. Where is the best place to visit, to learn the ins and outs of resizing bullets?
Who do you buy your bullets from?
Thanks for your time.

I make my own Lee 500S&W bullets. I paper patch them and size them to fit my rifles.
I have written a lot about making, wrapping and sizing these. I have some videos on YouTube too.

 

[KenW]

i have had the same experience with the "no excuses" bullets. Reported size is not the actual size.

I just ordered and received the .50 cal bore size kit. Mic’d each one and they are dead on. 0= .500, 1= .501, 2= .502, etc. Also measured and all the bands are equal and none are out of round. Reported size is the actual size in this particular kit.

I will do my own QC and measure, weigh, sort and size any future orders just to be sure, but so far so good. I do the same with other purchased reloading materials, projectiles and brass lots, or my own self cast, and limit any variables.