Very new to the muzzleloader world. I’m planing an Elk hunt in Colo the fall of 2025. Debating which would be the better load in my 50 cal TC encore…… a 300 grain copper bullet, or a 420 grain lead conical. Any thoughts on this?
Thx
G
Thx
G
Copper or Lead
- Thread starter Gsjcky
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420 lead would be my choice of those two. Might even consider heavier. Like 450+. Heavier is better when you want to stop a big animal like that.
300gr would be fine for deer or skwirls.
300gr would be fine for deer or skwirls.
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Bigger is better. A 300 gr is the lightest bullet I’d consider shooting at an elk. But you may have trouble getting an Encore with a 1:28 twist barrel to shoot a big bullet well.
Ok then……
Elk are in fact a big TOUGH animal. Not my first elk hunt, but will probably be my last. I would like to stack the odds in my favor as much as possible.
My heart tells me to use a lead conical, even if it’s a 370 gr Maxiball. Now copper…. I’m not sure how heavy I can go. Will I gain an advantage in trajectory with a copper bullet? If not, then a heavy lead slug is the way to go in my opinion.
G
Elk are in fact a big TOUGH animal. Not my first elk hunt, but will probably be my last. I would like to stack the odds in my favor as much as possible.
My heart tells me to use a lead conical, even if it’s a 370 gr Maxiball. Now copper…. I’m not sure how heavy I can go. Will I gain an advantage in trajectory with a copper bullet? If not, then a heavy lead slug is the way to go in my opinion.
G
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A 1-28'' twist .50 cal. barrel is about perfect for heavy lead conicals. The 460 gr Bullshop conicals and 460 gr No Excuses conicals shoot great out of my 1-28'' barrels. IdahoLewis has videos showing how well they shoot out of a 1-28'' twist as well.
If your Encore barrel has a QLA at the muzzle you may need to use an MMP sub base and a wool wad under you conicals.
If your Encore barrel has a QLA at the muzzle you may need to use an MMP sub base and a wool wad under you conicals.
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The 300 gr Thor is a great choice and much less felt recoil than a 400-600 gr lead conical. On a CO muzzy hunt, depending on the unit, most shot opportunities should be within 150 yards, so any of the above will work. How far can you confidently shoot with open sights?
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If you're not happy with the accuracy of your Encore with the conicals, try using a wool wad and the MMP Ballistic Bridge Sub Bases before sending your barrel off to have it recrowned. It may save you some time and money.
Whenever shooting the conicals in any of your guns, I would highly recommend using a wool wad.
Good Luck
Whenever shooting the conicals in any of your guns, I would highly recommend using a wool wad.
Good Luck
Never hunted elk, I would guess, a 420 lead conical as fast and accurate as I could push it. Something where pentration is measured in feet than in inches. Just my penny's worth.
I’m not sure of my Max range as of yet. I haven’t used open sights exclusively since my Daisy back in the late 60’s.
Been shooting BP now for 6 weeks(?), but I feel I’m progressing well. All my rifles will have peeps when I get my Renegade back. With my 50 cal Hawken, I’m able to shoot 2 inch groups at 50 yards from the bench. I can hit an 8” gong 75% of the time at 50 yards offhand. I’m confidant by November I’ll be able to extend my range to 100 yards from field positions
G
Been shooting BP now for 6 weeks(?), but I feel I’m progressing well. All my rifles will have peeps when I get my Renegade back. With my 50 cal Hawken, I’m able to shoot 2 inch groups at 50 yards from the bench. I can hit an 8” gong 75% of the time at 50 yards offhand. I’m confidant by November I’ll be able to extend my range to 100 yards from field positions
G
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My 2026 Colorado elk hunt I am shooting heavy lead. (530 grain parker in my 52 cal) Lead will be easier to load (softer) and will swell up into the rifling easier than copper which I assume will mean they will be easier to shoot accurately. Lead will be cheaper as well but I am not someone who believes bullets are the place to save money on a hunt. If I was running a 1:28 twist omega, I would start with a 420 grain no excuses and 90 grains by volume of triple 7 loose powder. A lighter copper bullet will probably be as long as a heavier lead bullet when considering twist rate.
My 52 cal with a 530 grain parker traditional hunter, with 90 grains of goex shot 1090 fps. With 90 grains of T7 is shot 1350 fps ish and the groups were very similar.
As far as distance, Williams has a BDC front sight that will probably get you out to 150 yards with heavy lead (Just a guess) . That plus a rear peep sight. I am going to run a Williams peep and a factory front fiber sight or a William front globe with the BDC and fiber paired together.
https://shop.williamsgunsight.com/ecommerce/p/western-precision-muzzleloading-sight-676584
https://shop.williamsgunsight.com/ecommerce/p/globe-sight--reticle-inserts-645807
My 52 cal with a 530 grain parker traditional hunter, with 90 grains of goex shot 1090 fps. With 90 grains of T7 is shot 1350 fps ish and the groups were very similar.
As far as distance, Williams has a BDC front sight that will probably get you out to 150 yards with heavy lead (Just a guess) . That plus a rear peep sight. I am going to run a Williams peep and a factory front fiber sight or a William front globe with the BDC and fiber paired together.
https://shop.williamsgunsight.com/ecommerce/p/western-precision-muzzleloading-sight-676584
https://shop.williamsgunsight.com/ecommerce/p/globe-sight--reticle-inserts-645807
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Everyone acts like elk are made of steel or something? I've used a 300 grain xtp or harvester white lightning to kill several bulls ranging in distance from 150 to almost 300 yards. Pushed to around 1900-1950 fps and your good to go.
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I haven’t harvested anything with copper. But I think either choice would be good with good shot placement. I’ve never had a Elk or deer go more than a 100 yards if you get them in the lungs no matter what bullet I used.
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I don’t believe anyone is acting like elk or made a steel. Not sure where you coming up with that. The OP was asking about advice about hunting elk with a muzzleloader using copper versus heavy lead conicals . Everybody is giving their experience and thoughts. I have killed elk with a 130 grain copper bullet from a 270 that was flying about 3200 ft./s and I have also killed elk with my muzzleloader with a 460 grain conical going about 1400 ft./s from the muzzle . Both worked just fine. there are several ways to skin a cat. Light and fast or slow and heavy. Everybody has a different way they want to do things.
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I'm not using a sabot in my .45 either, and 1900 fps isn't exactly what I'd call fast. I'm just saying you don't have to shoot a 4-500 grain bullet to kill with a muzzleloader.
Just noticed a lot of heavy bullet recommendations coming in and something I see alot of folks saying you need heavy bullets for elk. It's simply not so, nothing wrong with heavy either, use what you like and what shoots best for you and your rifle. Just my experience
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I've seen many Elk taken with the 300 Gr Thor & even a few Moose with the 250 Gr Thor. A friend's recovered 250 Gr Thor from his Moose weighed 247 Grains & Expanded just like Thor's Advertisement!
As stated above Bore Size, Iron Sights & Distance are the Limiting Factors.
Good Luck on your Upcoming Hunt.
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Thank you for all the advice. It’s very much appreciated.
I know a PRB though the lungs will kill any Elk that ever lived. The question is…. How far will they travel while dead on their feet? Elk will run downhill when shot into the blackest, nastiest timber they can find. Been there, done that. Never again. Elk need to be anchored as much as possible. That means braking shoulders before, or after taking out vitals. Even then they can still travel a long distance.
In my opinion, a bullet that can’t break a shoulder before going through the lungs is not what I want to shoot any elk with. Big heavy lead will do that. I’m not sure if lighter copper will do the same thing. I guess that is how I should have asked the question .
G
I know a PRB though the lungs will kill any Elk that ever lived. The question is…. How far will they travel while dead on their feet? Elk will run downhill when shot into the blackest, nastiest timber they can find. Been there, done that. Never again. Elk need to be anchored as much as possible. That means braking shoulders before, or after taking out vitals. Even then they can still travel a long distance.
In my opinion, a bullet that can’t break a shoulder before going through the lungs is not what I want to shoot any elk with. Big heavy lead will do that. I’m not sure if lighter copper will do the same thing. I guess that is how I should have asked the question .
G
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