Hunting for a musket capper & Shaving hammer cone down on Knight

[runNgun]

I have a brand new Knight Bighorn (Western edition) and put a musket nipple on for shooting at the rifle range. I found out really quick that it is difficult to cap the nipple without some type of capper so I am wondering what you guys use. I also found out that occasionally it's difficult to remove spent caps.
I have only seen one or two online and mixed reviews on those so your help is appreciated. Thanks

 

[Idaholewis]

Re: Hunting for a musket capper

I don’t know of a Musket Capper as I don’t use them, But I think you would be better off with a Hot No. 11 Like the RWS 1075 Plus, or the CCi Magnum 11s, I have some RWS Musket caps and Nipples for them, i tried them and I honestly could not tell a Difference in them vs these Hot No. 11s, I know some folks swear by the Musket Caps, especially for handling them (i can see why) I think they would be better suited for a Sidelock, Just my opinion

 

[runNgun]

Re: Hunting for a musket capper

Hi Idaholewis. I am using musket caps to dull the point on my assembly hammer. Sabotloader told me that the pin on my Bighorn tends to flair the #11 nipple until it dulls or I get it machine flattened a bit. Shooting musket caps seemed to be the easier of the two. I will never back away from my german made #11 caps...best in the world. I have 200 RWS (german) musket caps to shoot and just won't try loading them with my fingers. Others MUST be in the same boat and have dealt with it already.

 

[ShawnT]

Re: Hunting for a musket capper

I like Ted Cash products got a few of them, but never used a musket cap. I'm sure there are others that will work.

http://www.tdcmfgstore.com/agora.cgi?ca ... nc=search2

https://www.traditionsfirearms.com/prod ... rass-a1415

https://www.muzzleloaders.com/product/s ... et-capper/



You can remove that cone tip (Pin) from your hammer face. I did that to mine too. Sabotloader is right it will do some real damage to nipples. I had nipples flare and even split from it. I put the hammer in a vice on my drill press and used an end mill and slowly worked it down flat. Could be done with a Dremel tool if you have a steady hand. Local machine shop or gunsmith probably would not charge much to do it either. It would take a ton of shooting to dull it enough to not damage nipples.

This is mine before, with cone.

After.. No more nipple damage.

 

[edmehlig]

Re: Hunting for a musket capper

While I don’t have it, I think I would go with the one made by Traditions. Reason being it enables you to use it with both styles of Musket Caps. One with flanges and without. I like the ones with flanges as to me they are easier to remove in the field.

 

[Idaholewis]

Re: Hunting for a musket capper

A capper is definitely important with these inlines critters, I took the MK-85 out right after i got it to test shoot it, I didn’t bring any kind of a capper, I just don’t use them with my Sidelocks. The first time i capped the MK85 i knew right away i needed one I was able to shoot the rifle but it was a Balancing act to get the Caps on the nipple

 

[Idaholewis]

Re: Hunting for a musket capper

Hi Idaholewis. I am using musket caps to dull the point on my assembly hammer. Sabotloader told me that the pin on my Bighorn tends to flair the #11 nipple until it dulls or I get it machine flattened a bit.

I would do like Shawn says, Machine that point down, or have someone do it for ya. You might Grow a really long Beard before that thing flattens on it’s own

 

[runNgun]

Re: Hunting for a musket capper

I've talked with Sabotloader and seen the photos but still don't understand what exactly is being removed. Do you machine down the entire cone until the pin is no more and you just have a smooth flat hammer so that the middle of the hammer strikes the cap?

Shawn...I ordered a capper from Cash. I will post here what I think of it after I've used it a few times. Thanks

 

[ShawnT]

Re: Hunting for a musket capper

I've talked with Sabotloader and seen the photos but still don't understand what exactly is being removed. Do you machine down the entire cone until the pin is no more and you just have a smooth flat hammer so that the middle of the hammer strikes the cap?

Shawn...I ordered a capper from Cash. I will post here what I think of it after I've used it a few times. Thanks

Cool, I think you will like it. I have a 2 of the #11 straight cappers and a couple of the larger ones that hold a bunch of caps. Those are good for sidelocks but not so much for the some inlines like the Knight, they are a bit too wide to get into the action.

It's is real hard to see in the pics, and never could get a better picture than I did, but I did not quite remove it all. Almost. All you need to do is remove enough of the cone to flatten it out about the width of the stack on the nipple and try to make sure it is flat and hits most all of the nipple even. That little cone will go down inside of the smaller hole in the #11 nipple so it flares them out and can cause them to split. After a couple strikes it can be hard to get a cap on without filing down the nipple. I have a small table top drill press and had a small end mill so I set it up and just kept removing the cone till I had it wide enough and flat to not damage the nipples. I have seen a couple pics of these "Cones" that Look different than mine. Some were larger at the base of the cone (At the face of the hammer) and some smaller. If it is a real small one I would try to remove it down to the face. The hammer will still strike the nipple even with the cone completely removed. They use that type hammer as a sort of "universal" hammer so it will fire all caps and 209 primers. The old Knight company was doing that at the end too. My rifle is an MK-85 that I picked up NOS and had all the tags still on it, and had that hammer in the pics above. If you know someone with a lathe it would take less time to remove it than to chuck it up. :wink: It would still work with the Musket caps too.

One other option you might think about (and I did not think to mention before) is that you might look around for a used hammer. You might find one from an MK that is already flat and just swap out the hammer using your cap and secondary safety, or even a complete hammer. They pop up in places like Gunbroker or eBay.

 

[ShawnT]

Re: Hunting for a musket capper

I just took another pic of the hammer, since it is clean. My Cell did a better job than my cheap camera from when I took those other pictures several years ago after shooting it at the range. That ring in the middle is where there is still a "step" left when I stopped cutting. Saw no need to go any farther. If you look at my First pic above real close you can sort of see where the cone started wide and then got tall near the point. This hammer shot a ton of caps after that on the same Knight Red Hot #11 nipple.

 

[runNgun]

Re: Hunting for a musket capper

I understand the process now. File down the cone until the remaining cone is as wide as the #11 nipple. That is all the information that I need to take it to a machinist. Will do this week. Thanks to all for helping me out. :yeah:

 

[ShawnT]

Re: Hunting for a musket capper

I understand the process now. File down the cone until the remaining cone is as wide as the #11 nipple. That is all the information that I need to take it to a machinist. Will do this week. Thanks to all for helping me out. :yeah:

Glad to help. Let us know how you make out. I'll bet you like it better with it removed. :wink:

 

[sabotloader]

Re: Hunting for a musket capper

I just took another pic of the hammer, since it is clean. My Cell did a better job than my cheap camera from when I took those other pictures several years ago after shooting it at the range. That ring in the middle is where there is still a "step" left when I stopped cutting. Saw no need to go any farther. If you look at my First pic above real close you can sort of see where the cone started wide and then got tall near the point. This hammer shot a ton of caps after that on the same Knight Red Hot #11 nipple.

Shawn, I really think is a good thought to leave that little bit of a stump on the hamer face. The stump should be of sufficient diameter to completely cover the top of a Musket cap (for those that want to use Musket caps) but it also allows a way to more easily get a stuck cap out of the hammer assembly.

 

[runNgun]

Re: Hunting for a musket capper

Thanks Sabotloader! rayer:

 

[ShawnT]

Re: Hunting for a musket capper

I just took another pic of the hammer, since it is clean. My Cell did a better job than my cheap camera from when I took those other pictures several years ago after shooting it at the range. That ring in the middle is where there is still a "step" left when I stopped cutting. Saw no need to go any farther. If you look at my First pic above real close you can sort of see where the cone started wide and then got tall near the point. This hammer shot a ton of caps after that on the same Knight Red Hot #11 nipple.

Shawn, I really think is a good thought to leave that little bit of a stump on the hamer face. The stump should be of sufficient diameter to completely cover the top of a Musket cap (for those that want to use Musket caps) but it also allows a way to more easily get a stuck cap out of the hammer assembly.

You have a point Mike. :yeah: When I did mine I knew it was more than wide enough to get the job done so just stopped and polished it up. Worked great so never saw the need to go farther and maybe screw it up. :wink: Been a while since i shot that rifle but don't remember too many getting stuck as bad, like flattened all the way out in the bottom of the recess and needing to dig them out. Mine is more than wide enough for musket caps too so I could have stopped sooner.

 

[runNgun]

Re: Hunting for a musket capper

I just got my hammer assembly back. As suggested, I had a machine shop remove the top of the cone so that I had a flat surface area the width of a musket cap (1/4"). I have no idea why Knight doesn't do this for any "Western" model Knight muzzleloader. I am including a before and after photo. The top photo is the "after" photo. The after photo show a darker ring midway through the hammer. That is what is left of the cone. The shiny portion in the middle is the flat 1/4" wide surface that will make contact with a musket cap or #11 cap.

 

[ShawnT]

Re: Hunting for a musket capper

I just got my hammer assembly back. As suggested, I had a machine shop remove the top of the cone so that I had a flat surface area the width of a musket cap (1/4"). I have no idea why Knight doesn't do this for any "Western" model Knight muzzleloader. I am including a before and after photo. The top photo is the "after" photo. The after photo show a darker ring midway through the hammer. That is what is left of the cone. The shiny portion in the middle is the flat 1/4" wide surface that will make contact with a musket cap or #11 cap.

Looks Great. :yeah: That cone looks like mine did. I see long nipple life in your future with either style nipple.

Bust any caps with it yet?

Just my opinion but I think they are just making one style hammer as a sort of "universal" hammer, so they can stock only one hammer. It works but any one that shoots a lot will have problem, the average hunter shooting one or 2 shots, then going hunting for one or 2 shots, and then just put it away till next year may not see a problem or even care. But I don't disagree that a "Western" hammer would be best to not have that cone in it.

 

[runNgun]

I've been to the range twice after getting it machined. I've been practicing with musket caps and the caps are popping evenly with the wings busting out nice and even compared to before when they had a pin hole in the cap. I really like it now.

 

[Idaholewis]

Glad to hear you like it! The Machine shop did a good job :yeah:

 

[edmehlig]

You may want to try this one from Traditions. It handles both types of musket caps those with flanges and those that look like #11 caps. I like the ones with flanges as its easier to remove.

https://www.traditionsfirearms.com/prod ... rass-a1415