Loads to start with for Pyrodex RS?

[Rene]

My buddy had dusted off his dads Traditions In-line (circa 2001) muzzloader. Traditions customer service recommend he start with around 100grV of Pyrodex RS.

Just wondering what increments of powder we should jump up for sighting in to find the best load? 1gr, 3gr, 5gr?

Also how many different loads would you trial 100,105,110,115? Or more?

Thanks in advance

 

[MrTom]

Pyro granular is a relatively tame powder so 10 grain increments is probably just fine for hunting load work-ups. Five grain increments is fine for really close dialing in but bullet weight and bullet type will play into this as well as the sabots and primers.

If its a .50 cal and you're using a bullet/sabot of about 240 grains to 300 grains I'd start at 90 grains by volume and work up to 120 grains, 10 grains at a time. I'd expect that somewhere in that powder volume spread you'll find your sweet spot. Once your accuracy is dialed in, you can tweek it at 5 grains either up of down but a 3 grain change won't offer much.

If you're going to shoot soon and its still warm and you plan to hunt when it's much cooler, you'll want to verify your chosen charge size and bullet/ sabot/ primer combo when its cooler and closer to the temps you'll be hunting in.

By the way Rene, Welcome aboard!

 

[earlwb]

Welcome. Yeah 10 grain increments. You are just wasting bullets and powder with increments less than that. As stated 90 is a good start point and maybe work up towards 120 max.

Now with smokeless yes, 1 grain increments. But you have to stay within the min and max load parameters.

 

[jd24.5.48]

Welcome from S.Ohio! Exactly what they already said! Start around 90grn and work it up in 10grn increments.

 

[snapbang]

agree with all above

 

[deermanok]

X2

 

[Rene]

Cool, thanks for the info guys.

Would you shoot three shot group for each load and see which one groups best on their own or would you do a ladder style test where you compare where each load groups with each other on paper?

 

[Rene]

Pyro granular is a relatively tame powder so 10 grain increments is probably just fine for hunting load work-ups. Five grain increments is fine for really close dialing in but bullet weight and bullet type will play into this as well as the sabots and primers.

If its a .50 cal and you're using a bullet/sabot of about 240 grains to 300 grains I'd start at 90 grains by volume and work up to 120 grains, 10 grains at a time. I'd expect that somewhere in that powder volume spread you'll find your sweet spot. Once your accuracy is dialed in, you can tweek it at 5 grains either up of down but a 3 grain change won't offer much.

If you're going to shoot soon and its still warm and you plan to hunt when it's much cooler, you'll want to verify your chosen charge size and bullet/ sabot/ primer combo when its cooler and closer to the temps you'll be hunting in.

By the way Rene, Welcome aboard!

Cool, thanks for the info Tom.

Would you shoot three shot group for each load and see which one groups best on their own or would you do a ladder style test where you compare where each load groups with each other on paper?

 

[MrTom]

Cool, thanks for the info Tom.

Would you shoot three shot group for each load and see which one groups best on their own or would you do a ladder style test where you compare where each load groups with each other on paper?

I'd cut a large piece of cardboard as a backer and put several 4" target dots on it far enough apart that there'll be no confusion between shots and do 3 to five shots on a dot, using a different dot with each change. You can do the basic shooting using different charges, bullets, ect at 50 yards. At 50 yards, differences will be very apparent. One you've found a charge and bullet/sabot that you can live with, run a target out to 100 and do your fine tuning at that distance.

Remember that while you're doing all this shooting, you'll want to shoot slow enough to keep the barrel relatively cool and you'll also want to pull the breech plug after every 15 or so shots the ream the flash channel behind the primer pocket since too much build-up of carbon in there can sway your shooting results. If you're shooting say ten different loads/bullets five times each, you'll be looking at maybe four to five hours of range time, so maybe spread the shooting of these different charges and bullets between a couple different sessions so YOU are not getting shot out. Recoil can get old too and come into play as well. And like doing anything, not all days are going to be good ones so if you catch yourself flinching or practicing some other little bad habit maybe consider just packing it in for the day.... no sense in practicing something that is getting in the way of some meaningful shooting.

 

[Rene]

I'd cut a large piece of cardboard as a backer and put several 4" target dots on it far enough apart that there'll be no confusion between shots and do 3 to five shots on a dot, using a different dot with each change. You can do the basic shooting using different charges, bullets, ect at 50 yards. At 50 yards, differences will be very apparent. One you've found a charge and bullet/sabot that you can live with, run a target out to 100 and do your fine tuning at that distance.

Remember that while you're doing all this shooting, you'll want to shoot slow enough to keep the barrel relatively cool and you'll also want to pull the breech plug after every 15 or so shots the ream the flash channel behind the primer pocket since too much build-up of carbon in there can sway your shooting results. If you're shooting say ten different loads/bullets five times each, you'll be looking at maybe four to five hours of range time, so maybe spread the shooting of these different charges and bullets between a couple different sessions so YOU are not getting shot out. Recoil can get old too and come into play as well. And like doing anything, not all days are going to be good ones so if you catch yourself flinching or practicing some other little bad habit maybe consider just packing it in for the day.... no sense in practicing something that is getting in the way of some meaningful shooting.

Cool, this is all great info. Appreciate it.

I was thinking of swabbing after every shot, is that overkill?
Just trying to keep things consistent.

 

[MrTom]

Go shoot a few shots and see how the loading goes. If after a couple shots the loading gets hard, maybe swab after each shot just to develop the habit and make it repeatable in the woods. I've been of the school that you either have to swab after each shot like I do when I shoot T7 at the range, or you don't swab after subsequent shots as when I shoot BH209 in the woods. Even if loading is or seems ok on a second shot but tougher on the third, swab after each shot so there is known repeatability that will help eliminate little glitches that may come along if you were to swab after every third shot, say.

Do you have access to T7 granular in ffg or fffg? I have always considered either of these as superior to pyrodex. If Pyro is all what's available, by all means use it. T7 granular is substantially more powerful but all T7 products, sort of like your pyro, will develop a crud ring with each shot which means swabbing after each shot so from the standpoint of repeatability [swabbing after each shot] the two products mirror one another: use whichever you can obtain the easiest and cheapest.

 

[Rene]

Go shoot a few shots and see how the loading goes. If after a couple shots the loading gets hard, maybe swab after each shot just to develop the habit and make it repeatable in the woods. I've been of the school that you either have to swab after each shot like I do when I shoot T7 at the range, or you don't swab after subsequent shots as when I shoot BH209 in the woods. Even if loading is or seems ok on a second shot but tougher on the third, swab after each shot so there is known repeatability that will help eliminate little glitches that may come along if you were to swab after every third shot, say.

Do you have access to T7 granular in ffg or fffg? I have always considered either of these as superior to pyrodex. If Pyro is all what's available, by all means use it. T7 granular is substantially more powerful but all T7 products, sort of like your pyro, will develop a crud ring with each shot which means swabbing after each shot so from the standpoint of repeatability [swabbing after each shot] the two products mirror one another: use whichever you can obtain the easiest and cheapest.

Ya T7 is available in town here but when I was on the phone with Traditions they recommended Pyrodex for this gun. It is an inline muzzleloder from 2001…in hindsight I should have bought T7 probably.

I could prob sell this Pyrodex, if starting from scratch is it worth starting with T7 rather than starting with Pyrodex or will either do fine?

Realistically my buddy won’t shoot a tonne of rounds out of it each year…just enough to make sure it is dialed for hunting season then he will shoot one whitetail per year. The most he will shoot it will be this year doing the old development

 

[Rene]

Ya T7 is available in town here but when I was on the phone with Traditions they recommended Pyrodex for this gun. It is an inline muzzleloder from 2001…in hindsight I should have bought T7 probably.

I could prob sell this Pyrodex, if starting from scratch is it worth starting with T7 rather than starting with Pyrodex or will either do fine?

Realistically my buddy won’t shoot a tonne of rounds out of it each year…just enough to make sure it is dialed for hunting season then he will shoot one whitetail per year. The most he will shoot it will be this year doing the old development

I just checked, I can get T7 FF, the T7 FFF is “low stock” so no guarantee I can get that from the gun shop here.

Or just stick with Pyrodex?

 

[MrTom]

Shoot up the pyrodex, then grab the T7. They both smoke. Both stink. Both need swabbing. What you'll notice is the amount of energy that the T7 delivers [recoil]. In the end, T7 is a far superior powder.

 

[Rene]

Shoot up the pyrodex, then grab the T7. They both smoke. Both stink. Both need swabbing. What you'll notice is the amount of energy that the T7 delivers [recoil]. In the end, T7 is a far superior powder.

Ok good to know. I wonder why the guys at Traditions would have recommended it specifically? Weird that they wouldn’t have said either as an option.

 

[MrTom]

For the same reason CVA suggests PowerBelts....its call affiliation.

 

[Dieselden454]

Sorry I'm late , but Welcome from New Jersey . Enjoy !

 

[CVA Fanboy]

Ok ok ok RS or P from a rifle one can get many different answers, here is what I learned because I own percussion rifles, 209 In-Lines, percussion pistols and revolvers why I get just "P". If you do your own trials, experiments was not the speed that caught my eye bringing in my group tightening the shot pattern, wellll now that is something from 3-4 inch to 2 inches or less. You be the judge