What will 2016 bring ?
Can't say I didn't see some things coming that are being discussed on the forum about our beloved American Muzzleloader Companies. Sad, but true.
When I read that Gordy left Knight, that was a big red flag that this might be the beginning of the end again? Their Customer Service has been far less than stellar as of late. Sending out rifles to good loyal owners of Knights like Jay and Chet that don't even have the correct triggers. Bolt/Breech Plug/Barrel headspace stack up issues on $900 to $1000 rifles??? Really? Sorry, but Customer Service is EVERYTHING in todays disposable market.
I have owned Knights and T/C's since the 80's, and these rifles were built by Gunsmiths and Craftsmen with Deep Bluing, and Select Walnut stocks all finished off to a "T". The Customer Service was unprecedented from both companies back then. If you had a problem, they were only a phone call away, and in a few days you had your new parts or whatever. A buddy cracked his T/C Stock back in the early 90's, sent it back to T/C and in a week had it back with the most beautiful walnut stock you ever seen on a production muzzleloader. Knight Customer Service was the same way, very responsive to their customers needs. We all know those days are long gone, except for a few Custom Builders and Companies Like Cooper. I wish them well, but even they have figured out the market is very small for that type of rifle, and are also entertaining synthetic stock options.
Even the fanboys, brand loyal customers, cannot deny that times have changed. Most will blame it on cheap overseas labor, and other things. The fact is that the Quality of T/C and Knight have been slipping for years, even in their $1000 rifles. People don't mind paying for a quality built rifle that has some nice features, but when you are spraying on your finish, or slipping in standard triggers for advertised premium triggers, and still giving them a thrown together (ill fitting parts) production rifle with no other special care, what is that telling your customer?
I could go on-and-on, and I probably will, but I think you get the message. Let's just hope that Knight and T/C also get the message. They cannot sit on their hands forever, while at least on company is out there innovating. The Muzzleloader market has been saturated for a few years now, and without innovation, things get stagnant. I made a prediction a few years back, and other than possibly being off a little on the timeline, I haven't changed my opinion. CVA has been eating Knight and T/C's lunch, while Traditions is off doing their thing as well. I can honestly say that since the drastic changes that CVA has made to their line back in 2010, I haven't been excited about any Knight or T/C offering. CVA has brought their "A Game", and truly have innovations that leave the others in the dust.
Since 2010, some of the innovations that CVA has brought to the market. CVA's QRBP (breech plug) design that completely seals the front of the breech plug to the barrel is IMO the best production design on the market. They offer 2 types of breech plugs for all the production rifles, either for pellets or loose powder such as Blackhorn 209. The triggers on all the rifles are excellent to outstanding. The Bergara Barrels are excellent with a short 3/8"ish BGM (Bullet Guiding Muzzle) that is concentric with the bore and does not hinder accuracy. Real stainless steel barrels offered across the whole line, from the $200 Wolf to the top of the line Apex. Nitride finish over stainless steel on the Optima V2, Accura V2, and Accura MR's that is guaranteed not to rust. Several models with sight or scope ready option, and standard or thumbhole stock options in black or camo. Blued, Stainless Steel, or Nitride over Stainless Steel barrel finishes. The Optima V2 Pistol is a very nice rig, capable of hunting loads up to 100 grains of Blackhorn. The trigger is superb, and will pile 'em all into one hole at 50 yards off the bench. NONE of my rifles can consistently do that.
My 2011 Optima V1 Pistol is the only CVA that I own, but I also own 15ish other muzzleloaders. The Optima Pistol and my semi-custom H&R/Slufoot .45 cal 1:20 twist are my go to hunting muzzleloaders since 2011. The Knights, Whites, T/C, H&R/NEFs all are pretty much Safe Queens these days. If I were to buy a new production muzzleloader today, it would be either a CVA Apex or Accura MR, over anything that Knight or T/C currently make. Just a fact, and it's obvious that I am not alone. The Breech Plugs, Triggers, Stainless Steel and Nitride Bergara Barrels are just head and shoulders above the competition IMO. The Customer Service has been very responsive, both in person, and through the automated store. I've ordered Breech Plugs, Pistol Case, Spare Parts that I'll probably never need( Firing pin, Firing Pin Bushing, Firing pin Spring, O-Ring, Shim Kit, V2 Ram Rod ), all without so much as a hiccup or a couple days wait on shipping. Anyone called Knight or T/C lately?
CVA is exactly where I figured they would be today, and to be honest am still surprised the others are still hanging in there. IMO, it's only because of the Brand Loyalists and our deep rooted bias against foreign made products. Sure I struggle with that every day as well, and the only reason I bought the CVA Optima Pistol is that Knight, T/C, H&R/NEF or any other US Company does not offer one. This CVA Optima Pistol, and the post 2010 rifles I have shot has really opened my eyes to he functional advantage the new CVA has to offer. Just no denying that if I actually NEEDED a new rifle today, and lord knows I don't with 15 in the safe, it would be a CVA Accura MR with the Nitride, hands down. I'm actually contemplating selling my Knights, Whites, T/C, H&R/NEF's so I have a need, seriously! I would keep My MK-85, G-Series Whitetail, T/C Sidelock, NEF Huntsman, my Slufoot Conversion, and my CVA Pistol. The Three Knight Bolt guns would be the first to go since I no longer care to shoot them. I have the original Power Rods, and Brand new spare Version 2 Lehigh Plugs (with removable vent liners) and Bolt Conversions for each of them. All good shooters with the right loads, but just a lot more hassle to shoot and clean than my tip-ups. I mostly shoot Blackhorn 209 these days, so the Whites get neglected as well. I have SEVERAL custom breech plugs for my NEF Huntsman that is still batting a thousand on deer and elk since new in 2003. I have my Slufoot conversion on that frame, so she mostly sits lonely in the back of the safe as well these days. Several others as well. Sorry, I guess I did go on-and-on. I hope I didn't put anyone in a coma!
So I say again, what will 2016 bring? The S.H.O.T. Show is not far away!
Here is the blast from the past.
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=17489&hilit=CVA+eating+T%2FC+and+Knights+lunch
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=17066&hilit=CVA+eating+T%2FC%27s+lunch&start=25
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=26111&hilit=CVA+eating+T%2FC+and+Knights+lunch
Can't say I didn't see some things coming that are being discussed on the forum about our beloved American Muzzleloader Companies. Sad, but true.
When I read that Gordy left Knight, that was a big red flag that this might be the beginning of the end again? Their Customer Service has been far less than stellar as of late. Sending out rifles to good loyal owners of Knights like Jay and Chet that don't even have the correct triggers. Bolt/Breech Plug/Barrel headspace stack up issues on $900 to $1000 rifles??? Really? Sorry, but Customer Service is EVERYTHING in todays disposable market.
I have owned Knights and T/C's since the 80's, and these rifles were built by Gunsmiths and Craftsmen with Deep Bluing, and Select Walnut stocks all finished off to a "T". The Customer Service was unprecedented from both companies back then. If you had a problem, they were only a phone call away, and in a few days you had your new parts or whatever. A buddy cracked his T/C Stock back in the early 90's, sent it back to T/C and in a week had it back with the most beautiful walnut stock you ever seen on a production muzzleloader. Knight Customer Service was the same way, very responsive to their customers needs. We all know those days are long gone, except for a few Custom Builders and Companies Like Cooper. I wish them well, but even they have figured out the market is very small for that type of rifle, and are also entertaining synthetic stock options.
Even the fanboys, brand loyal customers, cannot deny that times have changed. Most will blame it on cheap overseas labor, and other things. The fact is that the Quality of T/C and Knight have been slipping for years, even in their $1000 rifles. People don't mind paying for a quality built rifle that has some nice features, but when you are spraying on your finish, or slipping in standard triggers for advertised premium triggers, and still giving them a thrown together (ill fitting parts) production rifle with no other special care, what is that telling your customer?
I could go on-and-on, and I probably will, but I think you get the message. Let's just hope that Knight and T/C also get the message. They cannot sit on their hands forever, while at least on company is out there innovating. The Muzzleloader market has been saturated for a few years now, and without innovation, things get stagnant. I made a prediction a few years back, and other than possibly being off a little on the timeline, I haven't changed my opinion. CVA has been eating Knight and T/C's lunch, while Traditions is off doing their thing as well. I can honestly say that since the drastic changes that CVA has made to their line back in 2010, I haven't been excited about any Knight or T/C offering. CVA has brought their "A Game", and truly have innovations that leave the others in the dust.
Since 2010, some of the innovations that CVA has brought to the market. CVA's QRBP (breech plug) design that completely seals the front of the breech plug to the barrel is IMO the best production design on the market. They offer 2 types of breech plugs for all the production rifles, either for pellets or loose powder such as Blackhorn 209. The triggers on all the rifles are excellent to outstanding. The Bergara Barrels are excellent with a short 3/8"ish BGM (Bullet Guiding Muzzle) that is concentric with the bore and does not hinder accuracy. Real stainless steel barrels offered across the whole line, from the $200 Wolf to the top of the line Apex. Nitride finish over stainless steel on the Optima V2, Accura V2, and Accura MR's that is guaranteed not to rust. Several models with sight or scope ready option, and standard or thumbhole stock options in black or camo. Blued, Stainless Steel, or Nitride over Stainless Steel barrel finishes. The Optima V2 Pistol is a very nice rig, capable of hunting loads up to 100 grains of Blackhorn. The trigger is superb, and will pile 'em all into one hole at 50 yards off the bench. NONE of my rifles can consistently do that.
My 2011 Optima V1 Pistol is the only CVA that I own, but I also own 15ish other muzzleloaders. The Optima Pistol and my semi-custom H&R/Slufoot .45 cal 1:20 twist are my go to hunting muzzleloaders since 2011. The Knights, Whites, T/C, H&R/NEFs all are pretty much Safe Queens these days. If I were to buy a new production muzzleloader today, it would be either a CVA Apex or Accura MR, over anything that Knight or T/C currently make. Just a fact, and it's obvious that I am not alone. The Breech Plugs, Triggers, Stainless Steel and Nitride Bergara Barrels are just head and shoulders above the competition IMO. The Customer Service has been very responsive, both in person, and through the automated store. I've ordered Breech Plugs, Pistol Case, Spare Parts that I'll probably never need( Firing pin, Firing Pin Bushing, Firing pin Spring, O-Ring, Shim Kit, V2 Ram Rod ), all without so much as a hiccup or a couple days wait on shipping. Anyone called Knight or T/C lately?
CVA is exactly where I figured they would be today, and to be honest am still surprised the others are still hanging in there. IMO, it's only because of the Brand Loyalists and our deep rooted bias against foreign made products. Sure I struggle with that every day as well, and the only reason I bought the CVA Optima Pistol is that Knight, T/C, H&R/NEF or any other US Company does not offer one. This CVA Optima Pistol, and the post 2010 rifles I have shot has really opened my eyes to he functional advantage the new CVA has to offer. Just no denying that if I actually NEEDED a new rifle today, and lord knows I don't with 15 in the safe, it would be a CVA Accura MR with the Nitride, hands down. I'm actually contemplating selling my Knights, Whites, T/C, H&R/NEF's so I have a need, seriously! I would keep My MK-85, G-Series Whitetail, T/C Sidelock, NEF Huntsman, my Slufoot Conversion, and my CVA Pistol. The Three Knight Bolt guns would be the first to go since I no longer care to shoot them. I have the original Power Rods, and Brand new spare Version 2 Lehigh Plugs (with removable vent liners) and Bolt Conversions for each of them. All good shooters with the right loads, but just a lot more hassle to shoot and clean than my tip-ups. I mostly shoot Blackhorn 209 these days, so the Whites get neglected as well. I have SEVERAL custom breech plugs for my NEF Huntsman that is still batting a thousand on deer and elk since new in 2003. I have my Slufoot conversion on that frame, so she mostly sits lonely in the back of the safe as well these days. Several others as well. Sorry, I guess I did go on-and-on. I hope I didn't put anyone in a coma!
So I say again, what will 2016 bring? The S.H.O.T. Show is not far away!
Here is the blast from the past.
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=17489&hilit=CVA+eating+T%2FC+and+Knights+lunch
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=17066&hilit=CVA+eating+T%2FC%27s+lunch&start=25
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=26111&hilit=CVA+eating+T%2FC+and+Knights+lunch
