Looking for muzzle velocity data .45 full bore Blackhorn 209 or other substitutes ?

[Doccbst1]

I need some help. Real world data
I'm working on a bullet comparison chart. Muzzle velocity, 100yds, 200yds, 300yds. Kinetic Energy, bullet drop.
There is limited data out there on using .45 full bore bullets with Blackhorn 209. Most of what I find is .45/50 sabot data and smokeless. Just asking if anyone has chronographed using full bore .45's.
How much increase would be expected without using sabots ?. Looking at bullets between 240gr and 300gr. Blackhorn or even 777 loads 90gr- 110gr measured.
Also, the software I'm using only list black powder or regular substitutes (pyrodex) 100, 120, 130, 150 grains.
Comparing Blackhorn 209 I think 100gr blackhorn 209 would be 120gr black powder. is there a chart/ formula to verify this or get more accurate?
Thanks for any replies, suggestions.

 

[HC]

That would be very helpfull. I have recently began shooting 45 sabotless also.

 

[45-70]

Bestill custom, 700 Rem. 77 grns. by Wt. BH209 , 325 grain Luke KLD , 2076 fps, .060 veg wad , B.C. is .421

 

[45-70]

 

[45-70]

These figures are pretty much real time , if you need can get other data

 

[ENCORE50A]

Parker 300gr Black Max

 

[52Bore]

Question:
Is there a difference in Velocity with/without the sabot?
The weight of the sabot obviously would slightly reduce the MV - but doubt it would make a significant difference.
Just curious.

 

[ENCORE50A]

Question:
Is there a difference in Velocity with/without the sabot?
The weight of the sabot obviously would slightly reduce the MV - but doubt it would make a significant difference.
Just curious.

Testing with and without sabots, would require different bullets, although you could use the same weight bullets.
Once one can get away from sabot use, they become irrelevant to most.

 

[52Bore]

Testing with and without sabots, would require different bullets, although you could use the same weight bullets.
Once one can get away from sabot use, they become irrelevant to most.

I’m just thinking different rifles, 50 & 45, same load & bullet. Only difference is sabot.

 

[ronlaughlin]

My bet is the bullet without sabot in the 45 will have a higher velocity than the same bullet in sabot, in the 50, same powder.

 

[45-70]

Question:
Is there a difference in Velocity with/without the sabot?
The weight of the sabot obviously would slightly reduce the MV - but doubt it would make a significant difference.
Just curious.

the post wanted data on .45 without sabots I believe in real time not table

 

[ENCORE50A]

I’m just thinking different rifles, 50 & 45, same load & bullet. Only difference is sabot.

I think I might understand what you're looking for. I can get you fairly close, at least within 5grs of BH, but with the same weight bullet. I did gather a couple readings when I had the UF with 300gr bullets, but the charge would be 5grs over what the 45cal with a 300gr bullet was. If its any help?

NOTE: ANY CHARGES LISTED IN THE CHARTS BELOW ARE SAFE IN MY RIFLES. DO NOT SHOOT THESE CHARGES IN YOUR RIFLE! READ AND FOLLOW YOUR RIFLE'S OWNERS MANUAL ONLY!

Sorry about the 2 different charts, had to hunt them up.

Here is a reading shooting a 300gr bullet W/SABOT from my 50cal UF. Charge was 105grs BH209-W



The next chart is shooting 45cal W/O sabot, but a 300gr bullet using a .060" veggie wad and 100grs of BH209-W

 

[Doccbst1]

Tables, real time, experience, manufacturers data. All help. The actual result is for full bore .45 bullets in a .45 rifle. I'm going to use published data on 45/50 sabots in a .50 if chronograph data is unavailable. Ie. From Blackhorn:

 

[ENCORE50A]

Tables, real time, experience, manufacturers data. All help. The actual result is for full bore .45 bullets in a .45 rifle. I'm going to use published data on 45/50 sabots in a .50 if chronograph data is unavailable. Ie. From Blackhorn:View attachment 8119

When the weather improves, I will be getting the chrono out and will be shooting only 45cal bullet to bore, using BH209 at 84/120grs. All bullets will set on a .060" veggie wad, using LRMP's in modules.
I have 250, 275 and 300gr bullets to shoot.
If you're looking for that type information, I'd be glad to provide it. BUT.... our weather must get better first

 

[52Bore]

Thanks Encore:
2313 vs 2289 = 24fps difference. Make sense to me.

Doccbst1 will find out no 2 guns/loads are going to perform the same/ give exact results.

 

[45-70]

no more data from me , i know mine works, you can use ballistic chart all you want but you still have to shoot your rifle to find the real velocity with certain load, until you do it makes no difference, what ballistic calc is used. My real data is slightly different than chart and my Strelok dope is what I hunt by no hold overs , I turn the dial in MOA needed

 

[Doccbst1]

Thanks Encore:
2313 vs 2289 = 24fps difference. Make sense to me.

Doccbst1 will find out no 2 guns/loads are going to perform the same/ give exact results.

Yea, this is just for general comparison and research. I'm just surprised at the lack of .45 data. I'm waiting on decent weather to shoot also. I have about 7 bullets to try full bore and the 200gr SST/TC and 195 Barnes .40 cal./45 sabot rounds.

 

[Doccbst1]

Bestill custom, 700 Rem. 77 grns. by Wt. BH209 , 325 grain Luke KLD , 2076 fps, .060 veg wad , B.C. is .421

Is that the xld 1.51" 325 gr from Arrowhead? I'm guessing your Bestill is 1:18 or 1:20 twist.

 

[ENCORE50A]

no more data from me , i know mine works, you can use ballistic chart all you want but you still have to shoot your rifle to find the real velocity with certain load, until you do it makes no difference, what ballistic calc is used. My real data is slightly different than chart and my Strelok dope is what I hunt by no hold overs , I turn the dial in MOA needed

Bob, I make the ballistics charts I posted only after sending bullets through the chronograph, so the velocities in the charts are verified actual 15' from the muzzle, which I think is what he's looking for ??
For myself, once I get actual velocities, I create the charts I posted, only as a guide for range work. I can get myself on paper, but there's always a final adjustment necessary.
Only after I confirm the actual, will I make a drop chart specific to the actual drops.

You're absolutely correct, you have to shoot it to verify drops.

 

[45-70]

Is that the xld 1.51" 325 gr from Arrowhead? I'm guessing your Bestill is 1:18 or 1:20 twist.

yes, twist is 17