Need Help Ordering the Correct Sight Components

[SBH2OMan]

Hey guys,

A quick update on the See-All sight...

I took out the Disc Elite to the range this weekend with a friend who is teaching me all the ins and outs of BP/Muzzleloaders and we fired off about 10-12 shots from the Elite with the See-All sight mounted to the front-most scope mount (a Leopold Weaver-style) base). (mounted it on the rear scope base it interfered with the operation of the bolt).

My general impression is that it is GREAT for targets up to about 50 yards away, but trying to line up the 100 yard target was very difficult because the sight obscures anything under the target and the little triangle is simply too big to be accurate at that distance. At 50 yards I was shooting a sub-1" group, and this was toward the end of the day when my shoulder was getting very tired. (250 gr. Barnes TSX flat nose all copper bullets, Crush Rib Sabot, and 110 gr of BH209. However, trying to shoot a deer at 100+ yards would be very difficult; there is simply a mis-match between the size of the sight and the size of the target. Compared to the modified M1a aperture sight on my friend's Knight there was no contest, and made me realize very quickly that the See-All is not the solution I am looking for to hunt deer.

That being said, the ability to easily focus on the target with both eyes open and then line up the very bright triangle on the sight was very fast and easy. even in the drizzly low-light morning hours when we started. I'll probably end up putting it on a pistol or shotgun, as I think it would be great for those applications.

So, I'm back to the hunt for a good front/rear sight combo that I can use on the Disc Elite. I may post a new thread that is specific to my needs rather than clutter up this one. But I wanted to follow up in case anyone was curious about the See-All.

 

[GM54-120]

You may be able to find something for the Elite that is similar to this Ruger #1 front base. http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/si ... 12041.aspx

 

[Dutch]

Hard way,

I have not commented until now because my suggestion didn't seem to be for what you are looking. However after your last post, I think you be open to some other ideas. I suggest you check out XS Sight Systems. They make a ghost ring rear that seems to be nearly bulletproof. The front site is a squared post. This is the type sight I used in the service and I learned to shoot it very well. I like the flat top of the post because it allows you to bisect the top and bottom of the target. This seems more accurate and positive than a fiber optic front post which is in fashion today. With a fiber optic I cannot seem to get a good reference. Remember that your eye should be focused on the front sight and the target should be blurry. The square post is much easier for me to align on the blurry target than are the fiber optics.

XS makes sight set for all Knights. The UL might be a slight exception because the end of the barrel is a smaller diameter than all the others. Perhaps you could give XS a call and decide which front unit is appropriate.

At the very least it is another option to consider. If your training was different, this may not be optimal for you.

In any case it sure is fun "hunting" for the right sights. Setting them up and sighting them in is also fun.

 

[TheHardWay]

Thanks Dutch...I'll check them out! :yeah:

 

[Dave C]

I'm no expert but I too was in your situation a year ago and looking to improve the open sights on a new MZ. I saw the article recommending the Lyman/Shaver globe and peep and tried a number of different sight combinations and configurations. I did not try the See-All because of the issue that SBH2O referred to. I was looking for something that I could use for more precision at longer distances and I knew I would have the same problem with that as I was having with other front sights--too much target obstruction. Ultimately, what I'm currently using is a Lyman peep(rear) and a single fiber optic dot on the front. The Shaver inserts are OK if you're in adequate light conditions but I was concerned about being able to see adequately in low-light conditions, including dark timber so I axed those. Most front fiber-optic sights are too big as well, IMO. I ended up modifying a brass dot front sight that came on the gun when I bought it(on accident actually--I was trying to file it into a point rather than a dot and the brass dot came out of the housing ) I replaced it with a fiber optic fiber that I cut from one of my bow sites. It's much smaller than anything the mfrs sell. I'm able to see it in low light and it doesn't obscure my target acquisition. Not sure how durable its gonna be is the only problem. I have to be pretty careful pulling the gun out of a soft case so as not to catch the front sight on the padding. Considering adding the Lyman hood to protect it but worried I might lose some light gathering and defeat the purpose of the fiber optic.

 

[TheHardWay]

That is a good idea on taking a fiber optic from a bow sight!
As far as adding a hood to protect it, yet allow enough light to illuminate the fiber optic, a person could machine some slots into the hood if they had access to a mill or knew someone that did. At the very least, perhaps you could carefully drill some some holes in the hood to allow light to pass through.

 

[idahoron]

This is what I did with one of my MK85's. At the end i go over what I would try.

After getting my MK85's, I added Williams FP peeps. I hated the front sights on the rifles because they covered up too much of the target. I tried to add a hood to this rifle and the hood and front sight were not centered. I felt like it was not natural. I have been using the Lyman 17 AML globe sights with Lee Shavers inserts on my Hot Rod Hawken and renegades for a long time. So I decided to give them a try on the knights.
The one thing that I knew was the front sight, the Lyman 17 AHB was going to be too tall for the FP. I knew I needed to probably raise the rear sight. So I measured approximately how much I needed and found what I hope to be a suitable spacer. I ordered some screws to do the lift kit but I didn't know what size so I got them too long and had to trim them down.
I didn't know where the sight would be set but it feel good.

The first time I shot it the rifle looked like this.

It shot real well. I had one group that was under 2" at 100 yards. I have target knobs on the Williams FP sight. I also have a custom set screw for the locking screw. What I do is take the yardage with a range finder and set the sight for that shot. So after shooting it I found that I had FULL range of adjustment with the lift kit installed. Like I said I have been shooing like this for MANY years. On long shots like 200 and 300 yards your face lifts as you raise the rear sight. I wanted to add a cheek pad to raise it. This is what it looks like now.

I have thought about your problem with your rifle. What I would do is order a Williams FP sight for the MK85. The I would get a weaver scope mount and grind it down to the height I needed it. If you can't do that on your own I would have a machine shop mill it down. I did mine my self with a belt sander.
You will need longer 6-48 screws. Most likely you will also need to adjust the length of the screws so the screws don't interfere with the working of the bolt.

 

[shguns]

Ron,
Nice post of some great ideas.
Did you buy or make the cheek piece/pad?
Thanks!

 

[idahoron]

I like to make as much as I can but for this I went with Voodoo Tactical Cheek Rest Pad. I haven't shot it yet but it felt good. I got to get out soon.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0084G ... ge_o00_s00

 

[SBH2OMan]

Rather than creating a new thread, I figured I'd add to this one, even though my situation is a little bit different that the OP. But I think I can benefit from anything that applies to his original post, so here we go..

I test-fitted a Williams FP-Legend rear peep sight (#54251 - $87) today on the Disc Elite with mixed results...

The Good News: The mating surfaces are nicely in alignment and the screws hold things down nice and tight without any wobbling or play. The bolt handle clears the sight but has a few thousandths of interference when in the lower 1/3 of its range that I need to file off

The Bad News: The elevation adjustment interferes with the stock. I took out a small chisel, sharpened it up, and whittled away at the stock to open up a channel for the sight. I've been fairly generous with the clearance because I don't want any contact while the gun is firing or otherwise being knocked about/heating up/cooling down, etc. I still need to finish up the job with some fine sand paper, but it will always be obvious because the sanding removes the "spatter coat" type texture on the stock. This is a tool for hunting and I paid next to nothing for the rifle, so the cosmetics aren't a huge priority to me.

So, I'm now very close to being done with the rear sight. Time to figure out what to do with the front sight.

Question - What are the suggestions for determining the height of the front sight I need? Nothing I can come up with (using my available hand tools and measuring devices) seems accurate enough (simple caliper-type micrometer).

My initial thought is to measure from the inside top of the sight aperture to the inside bottom of the bore at the receiver (with the bolt removed) then subtract 1/2 the diameter of the bore and 1/2 the diameter of the sight aperture - this would (in theory) give me the distance from the center of the peep to the center of the bore. (Before doing this, I dropped the sight 25% in order to give me more upward adjustability from the "calibration point"). The value I derived was 1.01" (center of bore to center of sight aperture)

Then I measured the outside diameter of the muzzle, 1" back from the crown = 0.81" (actually 0.806 but I'm rounding to 100ths). 1/2 that = .405" (distance from center of bore to top of muzzle)

Then I subtracted this value from the height of the peep sight from the bore center (1.01") to arrive at the distance from the top of the muzzle to the center of the front sight = 0.61" (or darned near 5/8ths of an inch).

Is my math right? Assuming it is, that means I need a combined height of base + sight blade of 0.61" or 15.5mm

Looking at this unit from NEGS:
http://www.newenglandcustomgun.com/Gun_ ... xV_i2PsWG8

It appears that the height is 0.315" which would mean I need a sight blade of 0.352" Whew! (does your brain hurt yet?)

Since there are no screw holes, I need to solder on my front sight base. If anyone has any other suggestions for a sight base I'd love to hear/see them, particularly since the one from NEGS says it has an underside radius of 0.630" (which would mean a barrel diameter of 1.26"??!!). If that is correct, it will be too wide for the 0.8" barrel on the Disc Elite...