stocking up

[Black Locust]

Galena gave us the great U.S. Grant.

 

[GUN NUT]

search h.r.615 bill about lead ban on Federal land

 

[Tony gilbert]

Great topic, Maryland is proposing a bill to outlaw lead hunting projectiles. Although I don’t think it will pass and I’m pretty stocked on lead core handloads and bullets. I can’t imagine that you wouldn’t be allowed to use lead ammo at your range since most do lead recovery. Be interesting to see though.

you know how maryland is but that will never pass theyre trying to ban lead and we can't have flamethrowers i really hate maryland sometimes

 

[GBG]

35 years ago I was machining my own steel 12 ga. slugs for use in plastic shotcups. If lead is banned, I'll make steel bullets and load them in ML sabots. Bullet expansion is great but not absolutely required. Complete bullet/ball penetration of the vitals is still lethal.

Next they'll ban plastic and I'll have to start making rolled/glued paper sabots. JMHO

 

[smokem]

We all get to make choices and I choose not to eat lead. Anyone who has taken the time to understand how a lead projectile splatters through the meat of a deer should know that even if you trim out the most obvious areas when you process it that there is lead scattered throughout the rest of the meat. If you invest the time, you can find X-Rays that show this exact pattern of lead contamination in harvested deer. Given what we know about the toxicity of lead, for me that's a big "no thank you" and a reason why I process my own deer. I have zero interest in having Joey Bag-o-Donuts lead contaminated deer ground up together with one of mine by a sloppy processer.
A story I often tell is of a deer that I once shot with my 30-06 rifle. I was using Remington Core Locked 180 grain bullets. I shot a doe from about 70 yards with a perfect broadside shot through the ribs/lungs. When I butchered the deer I found the mushroomed bullet in one of the round steaks. It had somehow turned and travelled through the length of that deer and ended up in the hind-quarter. For some reason I decided to weigh that nicely mushroomed bullet. It weighed about 70 grains. Where was the rest of it? In the gut pile? Dream on. It was spread through the rest of that deer. I have been shooting non-toxic (copper) ever since. They cost me more but so what? I don't worry about giving my grandchildren poisoned meat. I don't worry about poisoning my brain cell.
I no longer hunt deer with my round ball. I use it on targets, coyotes and varmints. I don't care to eat lead.
The state of NY can do whatever it wants on the basis of appeasing it's lefty influencers, but my decision has already been made already based upon consideration for the health of my family.

 

[retrieverman]

The powers that be may be able to pull off a lead ban on public ground, but in my opinion, it’s totally unenforceable on private land.

 

[noordinaryjoe]

That's a feature. Not a bug.

Giving up shooting due to cost is the whole idea behind banning lead projectiles.

I'm not buying this. The economics just don't equal enough dollars to move the needle. EVERYTHING in the shooting world is way more expensive, and still we shoot. Meanwhile, heavy metal toxicity is a real thing, even if some folks are only just now realizing quite how bad it is for us and the creatures around us when it gets into our bodies. Try casting your bullets in an unventilated space and you (or at least those around you) will soon realize where the expression 'Mad as a Hatter' came from! Sure, that ancient expression was specifically regarding mercury, but excessive lead and mercury exposure produce very similar results - and none of them good.

 

[noordinaryjoe]

We all get to make choices and I choose not to eat lead. Anyone who has taken the time to understand how a lead projectile splatters through the meat of a deer should know that even if you trim out the most obvious areas when you process it that there is lead scattered throughout the rest of the meat. If you invest the time, you can find X-Rays that show this exact pattern of lead contamination in harvested deer. Given what we know about the toxicity of lead, for me that's a big "no thank you" and a reason why I process my own deer. I have zero interest in having Joey Bag-o-Donuts lead contaminated deer ground up together with one of mine by a sloppy processer.
A story I often tell is of a deer that I once shot with my 30-06 rifle. I was using Remington Core Locked 180 grain bullets. I shot a doe from about 70 yards with a perfect broadside shot through the ribs/lungs. When I butchered the deer I found the mushroomed bullet in one of the round steaks. It had somehow turned and travelled through the length of that deer and ended up in the hind-quarter. For some reason I decided to weigh that nicely mushroomed bullet. It weighed about 70 grains. Where was the rest of it? In the gut pile? Dream on. It was spread through the rest of that deer. I have been shooting non-toxic (copper) ever since. They cost me more but so what? I don't worry about giving my grandchildren poisoned meat. I don't worry about poisoning my brain cell.
I no longer hunt deer with my round ball. I use it on targets, coyotes and varmints. I don't care to eat lead.
The state of NY can do whatever it wants on the basis of appeasing it's lefty influencers, but my decision has already been made already based upon consideration for the health of my family.

+1

 

[Black Locust]

I'm not buying this. The economics just don't equal enough dollars to move the needle. EVERYTHING in the shooting world is way more expensive, and still we shoot. Meanwhile, heavy metal toxicity is a real thing, even if some folks are only just now realizing quite how bad it is for us and the creatures around us when it gets into our bodies. Try casting your bullets in an unventilated space and you (or at least those around you) will soon realize where the expression 'Mad as a Hatter' came from! Sure, that ancient expression was specifically regarding mercury, but excessive lead and mercury exposure produce very similar results - and none of them good.

Real muzzleloaders need lead to conform to the rifling.

Real muzzleloaders need lead to conform to the rifling.

Real muzzleloaders need lead to conform to the rifling.

I'll say it again...........Real muzzleloaders NEED lead to conform to the rifling.

The sabot shooters have nothing to worry about. You can shove any material you want into a sabot. With no ill effect on the rifling.

The 1:60 and slower twist rate guys and the Kibler crowd have oodles and oodles to worry about. Because it quite literally takes us out of the game when hunting game.

And I'll refrain from mentioning the unbridled incrementalism that takes place with the Grabbers! A group that wakes up every single day inventing new ways to screw with our hobbies. Be it guns, motorcycles or BBQ grills. Not to mention gas powered cars, AC units, gas powered lawn mowers, gas powered leaf blowers, gas powered chainsaws, pot belly stoves, kitchen stoves, kitchen ovens and on and on and on and on and on. If they could invent solar and wind powered blenders, they'd saddle us with those too.

 

[noordinaryjoe]

Real muzzleloaders need lead to conform to the rifling.

MODERNmuzzleloader.com

But to be clear: I have 2 flintlocks and I very much enjoy the late PA flintlock-only deer season. Years ago I swapped to a .50 cal Green Mountain 1:28 barrel so I can throw modern, non-toxic projectiles at anything that I plan to eat.

I don't think lead should be removed from the periodic table of the elements, but for indoor ranges and anything that is going to be eaten (by humans or otherwise) non-toxic ammunition makes a lot of sense. I think this emerging common sense is why the OP should, indeed, stock up on non-toxic supplies as he thinks about future generation's hunting opportunities.

 

[GBG]

I choose not to eat lead.

I agree, that's why I use B.A.R.B.s (Big A-something Round Balls) and bullets of heat treated WW lead at modest speeds around 1200-1500 fps. They loose at most only a few of their 400 to 600 grains on a complete pass through.

 

[Black Locust]

I agree, that's why I use B.A.R.B.s (Big A-something Round Balls) and bullets of heat treated WW lead at modest speeds around 1200-1500 fps. They loose at most only a few of their 400 to 600 grains on a complete pass through.

Greta Thunberg here. How daaaaaaare you even think about using lead when hunting beautiful wild animals.

That lead ball could clip a bone. Then where would we be? Lead laden pink mist wafting up and into the stratosphere. Seeding the clouds with lead vapor. Raining down poisonous contaminates all over the world and beyond.

If we're not careful, we'll all end up looking like the banjo kid from Deliverance.

Neer neer neer neer neer neer neer neer neeeeere.

 

[Ninering62]

Greta Thunberg here. How daaaaaaare you even think about using lead when hunting beautiful wild animals.

That lead ball could clip a bone. Then where would we be? Lead laden pink mist wafting up and into the stratosphere. Seeding the clouds with lead vapor. Raining down poisonous contaminates all over the world and beyond.

If we're not careful, we'll all end up looking like the banjo kid from Deliverance.

Neer neer neer neer neer neer neer neer neeeeere.

Boy oh boy you’re gonna be a fun addition to the group

 

[smokepolehall]

I reckon i will just have to make head shots with my lead projectiles hunting. I ain't giving up my lead !

 

[davek42]

I am stocking a few bullet and shell items and had a thought. All are lead. I am considering an ample supply with the thoughts my grandchildren may benefit more than I. It crosses my mind that the state or country could outlaw lead for hunting and or shooting and this inventory would then be of no use of limited use. Anyone like to share a thought on this matter.

 

[davek42]

Thats why I have 400lbs of lead in my garage. About 100lbs is pure lead, the other is mixed for cast bullets 20/1.
And im always on the look out for cheap lead to add to my pile.

 

[eekjellander]

I'm not buying this. The economics just don't equal enough dollars to move the needle. EVERYTHING in the shooting world is way more expensive, and still we shoot. Meanwhile, heavy metal toxicity is a real thing, even if some folks are only just now realizing quite how bad it is for us and the creatures around us when it gets into our bodies. Try casting your bullets in an unventilated space and you (or at least those around you) will soon realize where the expression 'Mad as a Hatter' came from! Sure, that ancient expression was specifically regarding mercury, but excessive lead and mercury exposure produce very similar results - and none of them good.

And your reply is right up there with mad hatters , says some one who casts a lot gets tested and does nothing more than opens garage door (fan goes on ) when pot is on . Purchases a couple 100 Lbs per year , The wife wants to know why (I don't) and don't tell but 30 +years and not gonna start now ,she insists on blood tests thou !/Ed

 

[noordinaryjoe]

Real muzzleloaders need lead to conform to the rifling.

I'll say it again...........Real muzzleloaders NEED lead to conform to the rifling.

Troubleshooting here. I have never gotten around to trying the Hornady 'plastic patch' hardened round balls, but it seems to me there is a possible solution here for projectiles that don't obturate, but are still short enough to stabilize in slow-twist 'roundball' barrels. It should work with just about any material ball. Anyone have any experience with these? Hornady has cataloged them for many years now, so they must have an audience...

https://www.hornady.com/muzzleloading/browse/50-cal-485-hard-ball-system-20-per-pkg#!/

 

[Ninering62]

Real muzzleloaders need lead to conform to the rifling.

Real muzzleloaders need lead to conform to the rifling.

Real muzzleloaders need lead to conform to the rifling.

I'll say it again...........Real muzzleloaders NEED lead to conform to the rifling.

The sabot shooters have nothing to worry about. You can shove any material you want into a sabot. With no ill effect on the rifling.

The 1:60 and slower twist rate guys and the Kibler crowd have oodles and oodles to worry about. Because it quite literally takes us out of the game when hunting game.

And I'll refrain from mentioning the unbridled incrementalism that takes place with the Grabbers! A group that wakes up every single day inventing new ways to screw with our hobbies. Be it guns, motorcycles or BBQ grills. Not to mention gas powered cars, AC units, gas powered lawn mowers, gas powered leaf blowers, gas powered chainsaws, pot belly stoves, kitchen stoves, kitchen ovens and on and on and on and on and on. If they could invent solar and wind powered blenders, they'd saddle us with those too.

I get the point you’re vehemently driving at, but the implication that “ real ML’s need lead “ also implies that you think modern inlines & smokeless ML’s “ are not real ML’s “ is some BS.
Me personally, I couldn’t give a crap about traditional round ball or smooth bore ML’s.
I am all about fighting the state & federal powers for imposing laws & restrictions they have no constitutional right to do. Maybe this no lead movement will force enough of you traditional guys to ban together to fight that & put a stop to it.
FYI; ANY gun that needs powder & projectile pushed down its bore and a cap or primer added to the breech end for it to go boom - IS “ a REAL ML”! Even if that is a high BC jacketed bullet or monolithic & used with smokeless powder.

 

[MrTom]

I get the point you’re vehemently driving at, but the implication that “ real ML’s need lead “ also implies that you think modern inlines & smokeless ML’s “ are not real ML’s “ is some BS.
Me personally, I couldn’t give a crap about traditional round ball or smooth bore ML’s.
I am all about fighting the state & federal powers for imposing laws & restrictions they have no constitutional right to do. Maybe this no lead movement will force enough of you traditional guys to ban together to fight that & put a stop to it.
FYI; ANY gun that needs powder & projectile pushed down its bore and a cap or primer added to the breech end for it to go boom - IS “ a REAL ML”! Even if that is a high BC jacketed bullet or monolithic & used with smokeless powder.

There we go. This is a great comeback.