T7 Trials and Tribulations...

[dave19113]

After testing out the 240xtp's I got a deal on I decided to see about finding a fun load with the T7 that I got on close out at Gander.

After switching to BH209 a long time ago I never went back to any other powder because of the good results with BH. So i am by no means an expert with other black powders or substitutes.

I tried a few different combinations of bullet vs powder charges and always ran into the same issue. For starters I had my cleaning patches soaked in window clear then rung out really well just like shown on an article here a while back.

I went in combinations of shooting 1 time clean, repeat..... 2x's shoot clean repeat..... 3x;s shoot clean repeat but still kept getting the same out come; sub par groups and change in poi after cleaning patches then shooting again. When I say change in poi sometimes off the paper at 50 yards. Almost like the bore needed refouling and starting all over again.

When swabbing bore I would use 1 wet patch followed by 2 dry patches.

I would really like the idea of using up this T7 for practice and use some more in the future due to the fact that my local wally world closes out ML items for sometimes as much as 50% off so scoring 1# jugs for 15-16 per is a plus

 

[ENCORE50A]

I don't use window cleaner, but rather use Butch's Black Powder Bore Shine. IMO...Never soak your patches, they should only be very slightly damp. Soaking patches and wringing them out certainly can cause a POI change. I shoot cases of T7 without any extreme issues.

 

[dave19113]

I don't use window cleaner, but rather use Butch's Black Powder Bore Shine. IMO...Never soak your patches, they should only be very slightly damp. Soaking patches and wringing them out certainly can cause a POI change. I shoot cases of T7 without any extreme issues.

Thats what I was kinda figuring..... so I need to back waaaay off on the moistness of the patches. Should I be swabbing inbetween shots or after 2-3

 

[ENCORE50A]

I don't use window cleaner, but rather use Butch's Black Powder Bore Shine. IMO...Never soak your patches, they should only be very slightly damp. Soaking patches and wringing them out certainly can cause a POI change. I shoot cases of T7 without any extreme issues.

Thats what I was kinda figuring..... so I need to back waaaay off on the moistness of the patches. Should I be swabbing inbetween shots or after 2-3

What works for me and my UF, is I'll soak maybe a dozen patches and twist them as dry as I can. Then alternate with a dry and wet patch, work the dampness throughout, then stack them on top each other and put them in a container. For me, if I have a patch too damp or wet, it'll throw that bullet out of the group. After a lot of trial, the above method works for me. I swab between every shot, one patch in and out both sides and load.

 

[ShawnT]

I use windex (or walmart brand). I use a "Damp" patch and I really mean a "slightly damp" patch. I just use a small spray bottle that had Eye Glasses cleaner in it, got one in all my boxes. I can just give a pump or 2 (depends on how much the bottle sprays) to one side of the patch then fold and squeeze it in, similar to what Encore50A does.

When Hunting, I slip a patch into my mouth (dry one between my lips) and wet it with spit, then suck all the spit out, while getting a new load out of my pocket. I have shot a second deer with that second charge on the same day and it has not failed me.

I would bet you are getting too much cleaner into the fouling inside the powder pocket of the breech plug and it is wetting some of the charge. Just a guess.

 

[sabotloader]

Dave... some very valid thoughts have already been expressed.

I believe that the regular blue Windex - with ammonia is an excellent bore wipe for T7. The ammonia is a natural metal stripper and offers fast drying. Using a wet patch can and normally does leave to much moisture in the bore.

This is how I make mine

Getting as much fluid back out of the patches is KEY... I have been doing this so long and have so much confidence I do not even run a dry patch after patching the barrel.

Other people also use Alcohol as the patch dampener, and I have also used it but always seem to return to Windex.

Other products have been mentioned, but I would refrain from using anything that might leave a lubricant feature like petroleum or even synthetic oil in the bore.

At the range I push a patch each shot - in fact I use the same patch for several shots - even though it is black with fouling - if it still has moisture it can be used over and over. Remember you are not cleaning the bore you really are just reducing the amount of fouling including the 'crud ring' in the bore.

 

[dave19113]

Dave... some very valid thoughts have already been expressed.

I believe that the regular blue Windex - with ammonia is an excellent bore wipe for T7. The ammonia is a natural metal stripper and offers fast drying. Using a wet patch can and normally does leave to much moisture in the bore.

This is how I make mine

Getting as much fluid back out of the patches is KEY... I have been doing this so long and have so much confidence I do not even run a dry patch after patching the barrel.

Other people also use Alcohol as the patch dampener, and I have also used it but always seem to return to Windex.

Other products have been mentioned, but I would refrain from using anything that might leave a lubricant feature like petroleum or even synthetic oil in the bore.

At the range I push a patch each shot - in fact I use the same patch for several shots - even though it is black with fouling - if it still has moisture it can be used over and over. Remember you are not cleaning the bore you really are just reducing the amount of fouling including the 'crud ring' in the bore.

I think that might be my problem with having a patch that is too wet. This was actually the article I read way back when. I think i might just wipe a dry patch on one treated with glass cleaner and go that route.

Even though my experience with T7 is very limited I remember getting fairly good groups before I made the switch to BH. Thats why I was so puzzled when I had such erratic groups

 

[sabotloader]

I think that might be my problem with having a patch that is too wet. This was actually the article I read way back when. I think i might just wipe a dry patch on one treated with glass cleaner and go that route.

Even though my experience with T7 is very limited I remember getting fairly good groups before I made the switch to BH. Thats why I was so puzzled when I had such erratic groups

I would bet you might have had a couple of things working against you..

1. as you poured the powder in it may have pick up some moisture from the bore swab. may have even been some moisture in the BP cavity

2. if the bore were a bit damp the sabot may have slipped up the bore reducing the bores ability to stabilize the bullet or maintain a constant velocity shot to shot...

I get great accuracy and consistent accuracy with T7, both 2f and 3f versions.

 

[dave19113]

I think that might be my problem with having a patch that is too wet. This was actually the article I read way back when. I think i might just wipe a dry patch on one treated with glass cleaner and go that route.

Even though my experience with T7 is very limited I remember getting fairly good groups before I made the switch to BH. Thats why I was so puzzled when I had such erratic groups

I would bet you might have had a couple of things working against you..

1. as you poured the powder in it may have pick up some moisture from the bore swab. may have even been some moisture in the BP cavity

2. if the bore were a bit damp the sabot may have slipped up the bore reducing the bores ability to stabilize the bullet or maintain a constant velocity shot to shot...

I get great accuracy and consistent accuracy with T7, both 2f and 3f versions.

Yes, I definitely didnt wipe off the bore rod, I used the same to seat as to swab.

As a separate note I have the BH209 breech plug in my CVA which I was doing the testing with T7; is it needed to be changed back to the original breech plug

 

[sabotloader]

Yes, I definitely didnt wipe off the bore rod, I used the same to seat as to swab.

As a separate note I have the BH209 breech plug in my CVA which I was doing the testing with T7; is it needed to be changed back to the original breech plug

No - the breech plug really should not make any difference. A CVA plug modified to shoot BH really makes the rifle function better with any BP or BP sub, unless the 'flash hole' has eroded.

So I think you are good there!

 

[dave19113]

Yes, I definitely didnt wipe off the bore rod, I used the same to seat as to swab.

As a separate note I have the BH209 breech plug in my CVA which I was doing the testing with T7; is it needed to be changed back to the original breech plug

No - the breech plug really should not make any difference. A CVA plug modified to shoot BH really makes the rifle function better with any BP or BP sub, unless the 'flash hole' has eroded.

So I think you are good there!

Ok, Thanks.... I just wanted to make sure there was not any other variables Im overlooking..... Back to the range for some more testing

 

[Confederate rifleman]

Shot T7 for many years. Excellent velocities, but shot to shot variations were not very consistent.
One day, I tried Swiss black powder( 3f) and got very nearly equal velocities and when I do my part, very low and consistent shot to shot variations. Sometimes single digit. Never looked back.