Which scope

[bronko220002]

I'm looking at 2 different scopes to put on my SML. 1st is the Element Helix 6-24X FFP and the 2nd is the Vortex Diamondback 6-24x FFP. Element also makes the Helix in a 4-16X with FFP reticle for $70 less than the 6-24X. I'd be using this scope for casual long range shooting/hunting and not worried about shooting competitively.
Based on the reviews I'm reading the Vortex seems a better scope. Another question, should I go with FFP or SFP?
So you long rangers give me some advice.

 

[Wilyote1]

I have no experience with first focal plane scope but I do have a Vortex Viper on a 20 Tact that lets me see a fly on a target at 100 yds clearly.

My muzzleloaders were the last thing I worried about putting a good scope on. This year I replaced a very old 4x32mm on my Traditions with a Leupold 3x9. What a difference for these old eyes. My Encore wears a Leupold 4x12 and I might even opt for a higher power scope. Gone are the days of open sights for me.

 

[10acres]

I don’t know anything about the Element, but I am a huge fan boy of Vortex.

 

[Kal0]

Tons of good options and i can recommend leupold.

 

[bronko220002]

So many choices but I theink I'm going to hold off. I'll soon be heading to Florida for the winter and won't have time to shoot anyway.

 

[ENCORE50A]

So many choices but I theink I'm going to hold off. I'll soon be heading to Florida for the winter and won't have time to shoot anyway.

Good idea and during your time there you can do more research.
Myself, I'm not a fan of Vortex on a SML, or even shooting heavy charges of BH in a SML rifle. You just hear of way too many of them being sent back or replaced. I have no clue about the Element scope.
Yes, I know price is always a factor, however, buy the highest quality you can. You'll not regret it later.

 

[Shorty]

The older i get, i prefer second plane focal scopes the best. The reticle is brighter and in any lower light condition its a plus for my eyes. The only difference is when shooting moa’s on anything but the scopes highest power you have to double it for half the scopes power, etc. That is why when putting them on a muzzleloader for distances under 400 yds. I stay under 16 max power. I find that a 4-16x Around 50 mm objective is a good scope for me…and yes like the man said above, always buy the best you can afford.

 

[GregK]

I use both and I like both. However, if I was gonna break it down to the simplest explanation, I would say FFP if you’re going to do a lot of target/competition/very long range shooting. Otherwise SFP. As has already been stated on here a lot of FFP scopes have very thin reticles at low power, and can be very hard to see in a hunting situation.
Element makes a good scope, so does Vortex, but Vortex does have a history of blowing up on smokeless muzzleloaders.
I would also consider and recommend Arken optics. another exceptional brand that doesn’t get a lot of exposure and is one of my favorites is the Zero Tech line

Greg

 

[ENCORE50A]

I run two SFP scopes, both Nightforce. I prefer them for 1K shooting. I dislike the reticle getting larger when you zoom and at 1K, you'll zoom

 

[bronko220002]

Well I was going to hold off but I couldn't pass up the deal on Opticsplanet.com. Vortex Diamondback 4-12 Tactical only $249.49! Ordered and on the way.

 

[bronko220002]

I dislike the reticle getting larger when you zoom and at 1K, you'll zoom

So my straight 4X won't cut it!!!!! LOL

 

[bronko220002]

......., but Vortex does have a history of blowing up on smokeless muzzleloaders.
Greg

Greg I'm not sure where your info is coming from. I can see no reason why a SML would be any different than a big bore CF rifle.

 

[BuckDoeHunter]

It's been said that a break action SML is hard on scopes. I haven't experienced that myself on my two Apex's but have read about it many times from others.

This is a good read
https://hanksmessageboard.freeforums.net/thread/6201/break-action-scope-issues

 

[ENCORE50A]

Greg I'm not sure where your info is coming from. I can see no reason why a SML would be any different than a big bore CF rifle.

The recoil on a muzzleloader is much different than a CF.

Here's an example of the recoil energy of a 300gr bullet at 2,100fps.
Notice the recoil energy of the 50BMG.

 

[GM54-120]

Best deal im seeing atm on a Chinese scope is the Arken EPL-4. Great specs and reviews are better than Athlon or Vortex's China made stuff.

https://cameralandny.com/shop/categ...lters=207727:"Arken Optics"&sorting=price:asc

 

[bronko220002]

That chart is pretty hare to fathom! It may be the felt recoil because of the muzzle brake but I know for a fact that my SML shooting a 300 gr bullet with 55 gr of IMR4198 doesn't recoil near as much as my 30-06 Tikka T3 lite with 180 gr bullet.

 

[ENCORE50A]

That chart is pretty hare to fathom! It may be the felt recoil because of the muzzle brake but I know for a fact that my SML shooting a 300 gr bullet with 55 gr of IMR4198 doesn't recoil near as much as my 30-06 Tikka T3 lite with 180 gr bullet.

Here's the recoil for your 30-06. The charge is very accurate, as its a charge I loaded hundreds of times. The only thing different could be rifle weight.

Its all math......

 

[ElDiablo]

Greg I'm not sure where your info is coming from. I can see no reason why a SML would be any different than a big bore CF rifle.

Unfortunately, Vortex scopes are widely known to not hold zero. Here are a couple of evals where Vortex scopes failed.

https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/q-a-for-vortex-razor-gen-iii-3-36x56mm-field-eval.306507/
https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/vortex-razor-hd-lht-4-5-22x50mm-field-eval.253013/

 

[bronko220002]

We shall see. They do have a decent warranty and the one on my 700ML is holding up just fine even shooting 350 gr Bore Locks.

 

[ENCORE50A]

We shall see. They do have a decent warranty and the one on my 700ML is holding up just fine even shooting 350 gr Bore Locks.

LOL.......... I was shooting that CVA Crossfire down to Friendship that Barry had. I was putting bullet after bullet in a single hole. That rifle actually changed my mind about the crossfire system, but then all of a sudden they started spraying all over. Then Barry tried it with the same results. Barry is a pro staff member of CVA and of Vortex. It was a brand new Vortex that went bad on a brand new rifle. Barry was a little embarrassed, but I've known him for years so I didn't ride him about it. John on the other hand.................... LMAO