Muzzeloader sales

Modern Muzzleloading Forum

Help Support Modern Muzzleloading Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

WPrather

Well-Known Member
*
Joined
Dec 19, 2017
Messages
224
Reaction score
23
I wonder how the muzzeloader sales has been going for companies the last few years? With some states passing new laws for muzzeloader or alternative season. A lot of states are getting very loose with rules on what you can hunt with. With the custom 500yd muzzeloaders, centerfire pistols, straight walled centerfire cartridges and 35cal and bigger centerfires. It seems like that would put a pretty good hurting on the regular Knight, TC, CVA and Traditions muzzeloaders. In lots of parts in this country. When you can legally carry a 35rem, 35 Whelen or 444 marlin during alternative season. Muzzeloader sales have got to be suffering in those states. Seems like it would be difficult for muzzeloader companies to invest in new ideas and new muzzeloaders every year. CVA is also seeing this I believe because all there Scout V2 guns are chambered in these calibers instead of popular rifle calibers.

I’m all for a guy useing what ever he wants to use if it’s legal. But it seems like a lot of states really don’t care how many animals you kill anymore. Just curious on opinions?
 
My state only allows 1 buck (any deer tag) excluding managed hunts on conservation land so the method is not relevant. Take your buck in mid Nov. or in Dec/Jan. Its your choice but you only get 1. The only way you can get another "buck tag" is if you apply for a hunt that allows bucks and are drawn for that managed hunt. Some parts of the state allow an additional doe but otherwise its also just 1.

I use MLs/SMLs during the regular firearms season so for me i just dont care if they allow centerfire pistols during our "muzzleloader season". Its the same hunt just at a later date for me. Managed hunts though are restricted. No "alternative" methods allowed like CF pistols but in some you can use a bow or crossbow instead during the ML hunts.
 
I think there are two kinds of muzzle loader shooters: those that have endeared themselves to the guns and those who run out and buy a cheapy just to go hunt a season with the guys until he finds out that there's actually work and thought involved in shooting them. The latter is largely the cause of so many junkers out there after the season closes. By junkers I am referring to those left un-cleaned or left to rust. Granted some good deals can come from these guys but I've always had the belief that its a gun and when you shoot it you clean it. I spend a lot of time in pawn shops and private gun shops looking at what's around for blackpowder weapons and its always amazing to me how people, even these shop owners, will let a nice gun sit there a rusting mess.

I think that with the seasons so lax anymore we see big surges in sales just prior to the seasons opening. And I'd bet that 95% of those are sales on guns under $300.00 or the "kit" guns with el-japo cheapo scopes and sixty accessories that never get looked at, including the patches. I think those in the first category love the shooting and will buy when the mood strikes, not according to seasonal influences since most of the guns they'll be looking at are not the neophyte type of gun. Some beginners will step up to a higher grade of gun but because they have put the work into knowing what they're buying and the desire to have something they'll take care of.
 
your only allowed to kill so many deer no matter what the weapon is, so doesn't really make any difference. I know most people in Indiana are switching over to rifles or at least a big majority are. I prefer a muzzleloader myself.
 
The smart ones are adjusting to the new market. Some are way ahead of the game, others not so much!
 
I can't speak for alot of states, but I believe PA has helped sales. They added a early antlerless muzzleloader season a few years ago,and now it looks like they are going to pass a early muzzleloader bear season. In PA you need a antlerless tag to kill a doe, so the number killed is managed.
 
I went straight muzzleloader because of their effectiveness, challenge and lack of legislative hostility. Hostility from other hunters is another story. Yup. I'm an inliner.
Anyway. I enjoy PA's early antlerless and am looking forward to the proposed muzzleloader bear season.
Muzzleloading firearms haven't been a dominant hunting tool for a long time now. They are, and will continue to be, the tool for the hunter looking to give themselves one chance at a critter.
I bounced around with the idea of going muzzleloader only for awhile. Finalized the choice last year. Still smiling about it.
Realized it was the thing to do when I missed the biggest buck I've personally laid eyes on, with a Lyman Plains Rifle. Blew a 40 yard shot at dusk. Combo of a bad shoulder and pure shock at seeing him. I realized I had my chance and blew it. He survived blowing his. That's how it should be.
 
I use to live in Maryland with the exception of seven counties the rest were shotgun or muzzle loader I hunted with a Knight all the time Bag limits for deer were Archery 10 does 1 buck, muzzle loader 10 does 1 buck, and rifle 10 does 1 buck I now reside in Delaware allowed 4 doe 1 buck additional doe tags $10.00 as many as you like and an additional Quality buck tag extra I donate most all the deer I kill to the food for the hungry programs I hunt no where near what I did awhile ago age and health has taken it's toll Years ago I couldn't sleep the night before opening day now I am lucky if I get up Lou
 
I've wondered about this. I think that the people that are taking advantage of the CF laws probably weren't going to buy a muzzleloader anyway. I think if anything a lot of these states that are loosening up their restrictions are doing so to try to keep hunters in the field and as a way to recruit new hunters for game management. In my opinion muzzleloaders seem to have their own appeal that draws people in. I don't know that the market is booming, but I don't think it's going away any time soon.

Me personally? I be taken up the muzzleloader only position. Even stuck to it when I went on my elk hunt last year in WY. I've wondered if I would still hold to it if I lived in a place that would allow me to hunt with a centerfire rifle. I can't say for certain because I don't live in one of those areas. But I'd like to think so.
 
Savage MLII pricing went through the roof after they quit making them. I saw tons of them sell for over $900. I made around $200 on the 1 i sold no haggling at all.
 
Savage MLII pricing went through the roof after they quit making them. I saw tons of them sell for over $900. I made around $200 on the 1 i sold no haggling at all.
Yeah, supply an demand I guess. I can see it if the gun is NIB or LNIB an has been taken care of. All the muzzleloaders I have sold over the years, I was glad to just break even!!
 
Yeah mine was perfect with box. At that time a SS/Laminate was selling on GB for over $1000 so the guy was thrilled he could just stop by and pay me cash for it. No way i would take what i paid for my NULA either. It would take more than double for me to consider it. That price though is still over $500 less than the last price Melvin listed. I would wager if i put it in the classified i would get $1200-1300.
 
It amazes me when folks will sell their used muzzle loader an try to get more than they paid for it! For example there is a TC Black diamond on GB that has been there couple months..he has come down on the original price, starting bid....$895 be a cold day in hell at that price!
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/791984718
I don’t know anything about that model or what it cost new, but he says it was a limited edition with a match grade barrel. That’s more than 3X the price I typically see T/C Black Diamonds selling for.
 
The guys on this forum are into muzzleloading and love the nuances of the sport, But from what I see the vast majority are into it for extended season reasons, and never spent the time to learn how to fine tune. We are essentially hand loaders in the field. These guys jump at the centerfire crossover chance with the new straight walled laws allowing it, Basically for ease and less effort needed start to finish. I think the modern muzzleloader crowd is almost an anomaly niche. The traditional guys scoff us, but now they have the straight wall shooters to scoff, (the smokeless crowd seems to really push their button) similar to the trad bow guys, who always looked down their nose at the compound shooters, now they have crossbows in the ranks.
Bottom line, i'm sure the new straight wall laws are taking from the ML industry's overall sales, plus the decrease in overall hunters numbers nationwide. I think the lackluster overall sales, when compared to centerfire must directly affect the lack of much new design or technology coming from the industry. Almost all the research and design improvements (lately) have come from private smiths, and home hobbyists. This is also explains the almost grandiose spotlighting when something new does come out.
 
My question, being new to muzzleloading forums, is: Do dedicated muzzleloading hunters repeatedly buy rifles the way many centerfire cartridge hunters often do, or do more of them (us) subscribe to the "Beware the man with one rifle, for surely he knows how to use it" philosophy? I understand many may start with a "fixer-upper," hand-me-down, or $150 "Blister Pack Noob Kit," from which the learning amateur (like me) would eventually progress to a higher-end rifle. But, considering the durability of good rifles and the slow rate of fire inherent to muzzleloading, just how often do good muzzleloading rifles actually need replaced? It's not as though a sidehammer with iron sights will become "more obsolete," or for that matter, that a good scoped inline is going to wear out or fall any further behind the cartridge rifle state-of-the-art at any point. Soft lead, lubed pillow ticking, and plastic sabots sure don't wear down rifling very quickly, and black powder substitutes don't develop nearly the gas velocities or heat that double-base smokeless rifle powders generate to erode throats and lands. Properly heat-treated and fitted fire control components simply can't be worn out in one lifetime. Diligent care precludes corrosion. Proper handling and storage prevents significant damage.

I own 3 muzzleloaders, but have only ever fired one of them. I have an older style blued/synthetic T/C Encore 209x.50ML "Magnum" (from before the speed breech craze) bought new at a Gander Mountain store for $450 in 2010 when they wouldn't refund my $400 deposit on an AR I had ordered & I had to use my deposit as store credit; it's still unfired. There's a T/C Grey Hawk bought used in 2008, which I've only disassembled and cleaned to confirm the seller's claims of "like new condition" (which were true); I'm keeping it just in case I find myself restricted one day from using my scoped inline, and need a sidehammer with iron sights. But my first muzzleloader purchase was a .50 caliber H&R Sidekick stainless/synthetic which I bought for $199.99 & free shipping from Cabela's in 2006.

The H&R got a $300 Leupold scope, $45 Choate raised comb buttstock, $35 improved ramrod, 3 better Metrics, Unl. sealed-style 209 breechplugs at $35 each; $120 for Warne base & rings; another $150 in accessories like primer keepers, sling, strap-on butt pouch, scope caps, etc. - to say nothing of powders, primers, bullets, sabots, powder measuring & storage devices, cleaning & maintenance tools, etc. that are not necessarily specific to that rifle since I plan to use them on that Encore if I ever get around to setting it up (already have scope/base/rings/caps & a few aftermarket items on hand). Range rod, soft & hard cases, etc. are not in this total either. This rifle, with Blackhorn, CCI 209M, Hornady 300 SST-ML & Harvester Crush Rib, will make one hole from 4 shots at 100 yards on any calm day I do my part. It now has 637 shots fired, and the only sign of wear is slight erosion of the flash hole in the breech plug on the primer side, which is why I bought 2 spare breech plugs.

I have a little over $950 invested in hardware and can't imagine getting $300 if I sell it, and that much only if I left the scope & rings on. After all, it's a used, obsolete, 13 year old frontstuffer that was under $200 new, and now missing a few of its original parts. Never mind that it has a sweet barrel, locks up like the proverbial bank vault, and its 3 pound trigger breaks the same every time it's pulled, with no creep or grittiness - you know, the important things, that make the only real differences between potentially accurate single shot rifles and expensive tomato stakes. The rest comes from properly-installed add-ons & replacement parts, self-disciplined range work, experimentation with isolated variables, and the humility to seek and accept plausible advice from experienced shooters.

Why would I ever sell it, though? It does absolutely everything I could ever expect of a muzzleloader short of what smokeless propellants and alternative calibers can do. I have my pet load tested into a range card that gives my dial-ups out to 300 yards, which I've also tested with inclined/declined firing angles. I know my wind holds to 200 yards well enough to hit a grapefruit in a thunderstorm. I'm guessing many of you here get similar (and often much better) accuracy out of your rifles, with total reliability as well. I don't shoot long range muzzleloading or black powder competitions; if I did, I'd build a Hawken or Kentucky kit for my LGC's black powder matches (they'll let me shoot with the Grey Hawk, just not for points/placement/prizes), or I could sell a kidney & call GunWerks for one of their precision smokeless/full-bore MLs that require a picket pounder to load. But just to punch paper on a 200 yard range, and take a poke at an Iowa whitetail once or twice a year? I have my pet rifle, and one I could most likely shape up into a proper backup, so despite my affection for muzzleloading and increasing annual number of shooting range and ground blind hours, I am essentially a nonparticipant in today's new muzzleloading rifle market. I cannot justify, in practical terms, why I should ever buy another muzzleloading rifle except to replace one that becomes lost, stolen, or damaged beyond the capacities of reasonable repair efforts.

In summary... once a hunter gets the smokepole bug, has shot his/her first rifle enough to know what he/she really wants in that rifle, then gets the higher-end replacement, do many of us keep buying more muzzleloading rifles after that? Being new to the muzzleloading community, I'm interested in knowing how we justify buying more rifles once we have one that's all "dialed in" for us. I don't mean to judge anyone for doing so, but I'd like to hear rationale for owning more than "one and a spare" per hunter. In scientific use, terms like "critical" and "discriminate" have constructive meanings (and nothing to do with social injustice or hate crimes), and I'm just trying to understand through critical thinking how the muzzleloader manufacturing industry keeps going.

(It also won't hurt to have my excuses already prepared, if I have to explain an unexpected purchase on the Visa bill to my wife one day.)
 
If you do a search on that muzzleloader there are several in new like condition that have sold for 500.00, that guy started out at like 1200.00 on that one 3-4 yrs ago he just lowered the price this year.. Finally must of started getting tired of relisting it, I doubt if the barrel is any better then the standard BD as its hard to get a gun that will shoot much better then they do if you work up the right load. I know one thing he should of been a used car salesman for the way he worded his ad, unfortunately for him he hasn't found anyone naïve enough to pay his ridiculous price yet.



I don’t know anything about that model or what it cost new, but he says it was a limited edition with a match grade barrel. That’s more than 3X the price I typically see T/C Black Diamonds selling for.
 
I started with a P53 Enfield .577 repop, for shootin Yankees on weekends.From there I went to a Traditions Tracker ( which Baby Girl confiscated), Knight American and a TC Omega. Bought a Black Diamond XR as a backup, but Herself quickly became my go to. Was gifted a Black Diamond Super 45XR. Tried a few sidelocks, but the Black Diamonds are just so good I consider them to be the be all to end all for my kind of hunting.
Until I found a .50 caliber ThunderHawk. Best of the best.
The muzzleloading industry stays profitable thanks to those who must have the newest thing/ fad. Personally I think the muzzleloader reached its pinnacle with the Omega. I went retro ( striker fired) because of their simplicity, accuracy, full length rammer and they're legal everywhere inlines are.
Like compound and crossbows allow easier entrance into archery, inlines do the same for muzzleloading. Some folk will go more " modern" while some go " traditional". And then there are those like me who wind up somewhere in the middle. Its really no different than the same issues with breechloaders. Semis vs bolts, levers, pumps or single shots.
Its all good. Personally, I look forward to developments in powders( only thing that MIGHT make me give up Swiss Holy Black would be a BH209 type powder that can be lit with #11 or musket caps) and MAYBE bullets ( don't think the XTP will ever be obsolete) more than I do new rifle designs.
 
I’ve got a bunch of muzzleloaders, half inlines and half percussion sidelocks, maybe 15 total. We hunt deer with scoped inlines because we have antler restrictions that make hunting with iron sights risky. We shoot the sidelocks at the range, primitive biathlon’s and hunting small game. I’m a pretty regular buyer but it’s mostly used guns for me. I do seem to buy a new inline every few years. I have a feeling one of the new .45 CVA Acura’s will be next new purchase.
 
Back
Top