777 crud ring

[Smokey Joe]

recently harvestedd my first buck with Omega Z5 and 3 sticks of Jim Shockey's Gold 50 grain pushing 250 SW bonded. Shot completely through and deer fell in tracks. After reading about 777 powder I thought about trying 777 fffg loose and wanted recomendation on accurate load for my Omega using 250 SW. Also was curious about where the "crud" ring appears and best way to remove it. The 250 SW is very hard to load if not cleaned between each shot. I confess that I have not tried a spit patch since as a newbie I have much to learn.
Thanks for any advice to help me get the most out of muzzleloading.
By the way, although I live in Alabama, I was hunting the late primitive weapon season in Southeast Mississippi which just ended today 2-15-07.

Smokey Joe

 

[choc-dog]

Smokey Joe,

Some where between 100 grains to 115 grains of 777 you will likely find a
accutate load. Load in 5 grain increments. Be sure to spit patch in-between shots and clean after 3 shots and "dry" the barrel. As the powder charge increases so does the crub ring.

 

[newhunter1]

Also was curious about where the "crud" ring appears and best way to remove it.

I got rid of my crud ring with Black Mag 3

 

[Spitpatch]

Smokey.....Welcome to the forum!

Crud ring will form close to the breach plug. As 777 is a sugar based propellant, it is not only crusty, but cleans up easily with water. Spit patching after EVERY shot will not only make your loading easier but will also give you the consistent accuracy that you desire.

The procedure goes like this:

Lick one side of a cleaning patch. Make it very wet.
Place the wet side down on the end of your barrel.
With your cleaning jag, start the patch down the barrel using short pumping strokes. Continue to the bottom of the barrel until you contact the breach plug.
You may or may not feel the crud ring. Scrub up and down several times in this area, pull the patch, flip it over and run the drier side straight down the barrel and back up.
Now reload.

 

[cur_dog]

Spit just about covered it all. I have problem with my spit fo I use windex followed by a dry patch.

 

[bsn]

I agree spit patch after every shot and you will be very happy with the 777. The American Pioneer powders are to inconsistant for me.

 

[Smokey Joe]

Thanks to all who responded to my question. I now feel more confident that I will find a good accurate 777 load and know how to keep the crud ring cleaned out. Week after next I will be going to the range and will try your recommendations.
I have enjoyed muzzleloading so far and can tell that I will enjoy it so much more with the helpful tips and info from this forum.
You guys help accelerate my learning curve with your posts and although I do not write much I do read the posts in an effort to learn.

Again thanks for your help,

Smokey Joe

 

[txhunter58]

Only problem is that if you have a gun that gets a crud ring, you won't be able to speed load it in the field for a second shot. You will have to spit patch it and dry patch it before reloading to get an accurate second shot. That is why I decided to go back to pyrodex in my Omega. If JS gold was accurate, I wouldn't change. Go ahead and experiment, but you may go back.

 

[RAF]

The only time I've had to "speed load" for a second shot was when there was a 2nd deer that was to dumb to run away after the 1st shot and it's buddy fell down :wink:

 

[scratcherky]

Try using 777 primers. Be sure that 777 is on the box of 209 primers. They helped the crud ring problem and I can load at least 3 rounds in my Encore & Omega W/O running any patch between shots. I am using 777 powder in loose form.

 

[txhunter58]

The only time I've had to "speed load" for a second shot was when there was a 2nd deer that was to dumb to run away after the 1st shot and it's buddy fell down :wink:

I am glad for you, however, many of us will at some point in the future need a second quick shot.

 

[Patrick White]

I am glad for you, however, many of us will at some point in the future need a second quick shot.

Carry another gun. That's the fastest second shot you will get outside of them newfangled cartridge thingy's. :wink:

seriously though there's a lot of arguments on the fast second shot. I used to believe it was possible but not anymore. Now I no longer worry about it. I make my first shot count. If I blow it very seldom will a deer stick around for a second.

 

[txhunter58]

Then there really is no problem with the crud ring.

The reason I switched is because not only do you HAVE to swab between shots to be able to seat the bullet fully and maintain accuracy (at least in my Omega), but it takes me longer to swab between shots than when I use a non-crud ring powder. And if I get in a hurry and am not careful, my ramrod can get stuck in the "crud" and hard to pull out by hand.

As always, "make the first shot count" is good advice even if you have a magazine full of 30-06 shells. As with this, you hope to never have to use the second bullet, but never say never.

As stated, there is no such thing as a fast second shot from a front stuffer, only fastER.

That is, unless you are Daniel Day Lewis (Hawkeye) in "Last of the Mohicans"! And though he seemed to be able to reload on the run, he still had someone handing him a second rifle when he was shooting from the fort!

 

[Patrick White]

The reason I switched is because not only do you HAVE to swab between shots to be able to seat the bullet fully and maintain accuracy (at least in my Omega), but it takes me longer to swab between shots than when I use a non-crud ring powder. And if I get in a hurry and am not careful, my ramrod can get stuck in the "crud" and hard to pull out by hand.

That used to be a problem with my Omega too. I think it's the breechplug design. Then I went to using the 25 ACP ignition from PR bullets. In addition to keeping the action clean it also drastically reduced the crud ring. In my Knight Extreme's the Crud ring is little issue, mainly due to the breechplug design I think.

 

[txhunter58]

I did try the 25 ACP ignition too. It helped a lot, but I still had a very noticable crud ring. I have heard from others that it helped their particular rifle quite a bit, so it is sure worth a try.