Age class of some of last years pics...

[jcchartboy]

Hey Guys,

On another forum we were discussing what seems to be the concensus on the antler development at each age class for the bucks in the area that I hunted last year. Since I had all of the pictures together already I thought some of the members here might like to see the general concensus that was reached.

JC

Fawns...

1.5 yr olds bucks

2.5 yr old bucks

3.5 yr old bucks

3.5-4.5 yr old bucks

 

[Bucker]

pics

Keep feeding him and don't whack him. He is going to be nice and will be a greta breeder buck for your area! Love these outdoor pics!

 

[MOdeer]

jc,

Just a few questions on your consensus. I know you're in the Northeast, and I'm gussing that the people you've been having this discussion with are in that area as well? Also, are you basing your age estimates on body size or antler development? Here in the Midwest, our deer are blessed with tremendous amounts of food. Most of the 1.5s here have 6 to 8 points on their first rack, much like the 2.5 pic you have with the deer laying down.

By the age of 2.5 in my area, most of the bucks will have antlers at least as large as the 3.5 to 4.5 example you provided.

Thanks for sharing, it's very interesting to see deer from all over the country, and the difference habitat makes.

 

[Spitpatch]

JC......

You know I'm in the same boat. Hard to judge deer that are not from my area.

Based on what I know , which is limited to the Iowa areas that I hunt, I would say non are over 2 1/2 save the nice guy with all the points, and even then still has a lot of definition where the neck meets the body. Usually a 3+ deer gets very thick here as he reaches that age. Really hard to tell though, based on the angle of the shot.
The'll all eat good thought

 

[jcchartboy]

Hey Guys,

Remember...the aging of each buck represents the "consensus" estimates of a number of average hunters from another forum. (My original thread was designed to see not just how effectively these hunters could age deer but also to find out what criteria they were using to justify their aging of the deer.)

I specifically avoided posting my view of those opinions at the beginning of this thread because I wanted to see what everyone here thought of that "consensus" first.

As you guys can imagine, I think the "consensus" from the other board was horrible wrong (I was of the opinion that all of the bucks with the exception of the last one, or possible the last two, were all 1.5 yr olds) .

After analyzing all of the responses on that forum...below is what I concluded about the average responses....(*I should note that most of the responses that were overestimating the age of these deer erroneously attempted to attribute what would be unusually small racks relative to the hunters age estimates as being the result of "poor genetics". In reality however, these deer are from an area known for good genetics and the hunters were simply overestimating the age of almost all of the bucks!)

Along those lines, here is my preliminary takeaway from what I have read so far?

1). Most members are likely to be overestimating the age of young bucks. It seems very likely that many members are incorrectly estimating 1.5 bucks as 2.5 or even 3.5 yr old bucks.

2). Keeping with the facts observed in the point above it seems that many members may be incorrectly blaming ?poor genetics? for the apparent small size of what they are estimating as 2.5 and 3.5 yr old bucks. In reality the only that thing that may be ?poor? is their ability to correctly age deer, not the deers genetic potential.

3)Many members may be underestimating the age of ?trophy? bucks. This of course goes back to many of the same points made previously. Many members seem to believe that every 2.5 yr old buck should be sporting a heavy, tall tined set of head gear. While we know that can be the case in some instances it is far more the exception than the rule. (It is just a matter that most members seem to be underestimating the age that is required to reach true ?trophy? potential. (And equally as important is how rare it is that a deer lives to that age)

JC

 

[Bucker]

Aging

We have this discussion in my camp all the time. Aging deer on the move is tough, especially in woods/thickets. We have multiple ages of hunters in camp and if you look at pictures like these you will get a RANGE of ages and thoughts.
1. Younger guys 12-16 seem to think horns age the deer. That is all they saw and not the muscle growth head and neck. Horns were all that mattered.
2. 17 to 40 is an age when the killing is over and you start looking at deer for size (body), getting educated on mating , herd movement etc. I started noticing body size, neck size and seeing a mature deer became easier. Fill the freezer w/ doe meat.
3 40+ Still filling the freezer, just a little pickier on the deer. Had more patience (kids do that) and waited it out. Let the young bucks go and am satisfied w. walking away form the young ones.
5. The information availible today is amazing and helped me grow more into the sport than just whack and stack.
6. I would age those bucks (except the last one) all under 2 years and the last one (breeder buck) at 2.5.
Good topic, want to hear more input.

 

[jcchartboy]

seem to think horns age the deer

Believe it or not, for all but the more skilled individuals..horn size, or more specifically antler development, (combined with simple stomach girth or body "size"), is in fact the best way to age deer!

JC

Our study suggests that gross B&C score, basal circumference, inside antler spread, main beam length, and stomach girth could all be useful for estimating buck ages on the hoof. Statistically, antler characteristics provided the least overlap among age classes, were the most correlated with age, and are easier to visually estimate from a distance than body characteristics because ear length and tip-to-tip ear spread can be used as yardsticks.
http://www.qdma.com/articles/details.asp?id=86

 

[jcchartboy]

I should also note as an aside here...with the exception of the biggest buck pictured above, (which was a "wanderer" and was never seen again on the property), everyone of the bucks pictured above made it throught the winter!

At the very least, that means I should have a multitude of 2.5 yr old bucks running around this year!

JC

 

[MOdeer]

Glad to hear all your bucks are survivors! Your winters are much more harsh than MO, so in your area that's an important factor.

One question though. On the land you hunt, do you do any winter plots? I know around here, when snow covers the ground, every deer for miles will flock to my standing soybeans and turnip plots. It really helps them in the winter time, whether I can hunt then or not.

 

[jcchartboy]

One question though. On the land you hunt, do you do any winter plots?

Unfortunately it is not my land...However, I am one of only 10 people that has legal access to hunt the area, and I am the only of those 10 that hunts all of the seasons (most of the others only hunt the earlier shotgun and MZ seasons).

The property itself is a little over 200 acres and is surrounded by hundreds of acres of farms and woods.

They may be making some changes to the access rights this year so I won't know for certain if I will be able to hunt the property this year, or which weapons will allowed, (may be limited to bow), for another couple of weeks. (Though I suspect nothing will have changed from last year.)

JC

 

[jcchartboy]

Now...

Here is the whole reason this topic got started...

Just last week I took the picture below of what I believe is the same buck pictured earlier above, (the second to last one.) (I have included both pictures below for comparison.)

I'd like to hear any thoughts on this buck from last week...(is it the same buck? How old? etc.)

JC

 

[Bucker]

buck

was he rutting in 12/07? I wanna say yep, same one. Like that rack curvature.

 

[MOdeer]

jc,
Judging by the antlers, yes, I would say that is the same buck. Looks like that may be all he can grow.

I am sorry to hear your hunting land is in a state of flux right now. I sure do hope you get to hunt there this year. PM me if you think you can get to MO in early to mid October. I know you are a shotgun slug expert, and there's a special hunt here, shotgun only in a large tract of land that has not been hunted in years. I can PM you the details, and how to sign up for the drawing.

 

[big6x6]

They may be making some changes to the access rights this year so I won't know for certain if I will be able to hunt the property this year, or which weapons will allowed, (may be limited to bow), for another couple of weeks. (Though I suspect nothing will have changed from last year.)

JC

Well you are going to have at least ONE 4-day hunt on about 28,000 acres! 8)

 

[jcchartboy]

Well you are going to have at least ONE 4-day hunt on about 28,000 acres! 8)

...That is why I have been at the range and this property ever weekend for the past two months straight. In one month my season starts here and is only going to pick up spead up from there. I figured if I start getting ready for November now...everything should in place by then!!

Basically I'll have two full months to warm up....all as a prelude to the highlight of 4 days there!!

JC

 

[jcchartboy]

Here he is again this week....

JC