Best way to properly test rifle accuracy with many types of bullets

[geneso]

Nope, not yet. I found today that the bullet was stuck 4 inches away from the powder and I could not move it. All this is so frustrating in that there is nobody around here but me to figure all this out for the first time. Mr. Fisk wised me up as to what might have happened if I had ignited the powder without the bullet being so close to the powder. God!
So, I have to remove the breech plug, pour out the powder and drive the bullet out the breech end. Now I have to figure out what to use without injuring the rifling in the barrel.

Right now I shall deal with this problem first, then try to figure out why this bullet was so incredibly hard to seat from the muzzle when all the rest (4) went in much more easily.

 

[MrTom]

Pick up a 3/8" wood dowel and tap the bullet out the muzzle end so the pointed end of the bullets doesn't split the dowel. Oak is a hard wood that should stand up to a few hammer taps to get the bullet out.

 

[ENCORE50A]

Nope, not yet. I found today that the bullet was stuck 4 inches away from the powder and I could not move it. All this is so frustrating in that there is nobody around here but me to figure all this out for the first time. Mr. Fisk wised me up as to what might have happened if I had ignited the powder without the bullet being so close to the powder. God!
So, I have to remove the breech plug, pour out the powder and drive the bullet out the breech end. Now I have to figure out what to use without injuring the rifling in the barrel.

Right now I shall deal with this problem first, then try to figure out why this bullet was so incredibly hard to seat from the muzzle when all the rest (4) went in much more easily.

I haven't read all the posts, so this may not apply but............ if you're sizing bullets, some bullets "spring back". You size them to fit, yet after a day or two, they spring back enough that they're hard to load, or even not possible.
Fury bullets normally never spring back, while most others can. A method that I use is to set the sizing die to where its close, but then run the bullet through the die up to 5 times. Bullets that are known to have spring back, will remain sized for up to a year.

 

[Decay]

Oh Mr Geneso. You need to read all about the "crud ring" and adapt your life to deal with it. Use the search tab to find and read all about it.

Do you have a witness mark on your ramrod? it sounds like you don't. You absolutely must have one and use it. Use the search tab to read all about them. This will save your life, protect others near you and prevent serious damage to your rifle. This is an absolute must have item.

When removing the stuck bullet you remove your breech plug and use an oak dowel or an aluminum shotgun cleaning rod to drive the bullet back out the muzzle. But pour a teaspoon of 3 in 1 oil in first. That will lubricate the entire process and make it a little easier.

 

[Ninering62]

1) what do you mean you cleaned with 2 passes. Please tell us exactly what you did

2)why did you replace the breechplug?You should not have to do that until after you shoot all afternoon. I would quit muzzleloading if I had to pull the breechplug after every shot.

3). Did the 2nd and 3rd primers go off?

If I am reading your post right, I suspect you got grease in front of the breechplug and that gummed up the works.

I never use grease any more. Just plain old teflon tape. And when I did use grease, I popped 2-3 caps before loading it again to be sure I burned up the grease before loading it again.

When I quit messing with Anti Seize many yrs ago, I started using marine bearing grease instead bc it works just as well as A/S & I had a lot of it so I didn’t need to buy A/S any longer. I found that there is nuthin wrong with using either of them, the problem is ppl not understanding that only a minute amount is all that is needed & they use waaay too much of it, which is what causes them problems. It’s the amount used, not the product itself that caused problems.
I’m 100% with you on using Teflon Tape whenever possible.
The only BP that I do not use Teflon Tape on these days is the quick release plug in my Accura bc it makes it too tight to get out by hand so I still use a very tiny schmear of marine bearing grease on that plug. I have had zero issues from using it.

 

[bronko220002]

A few things. But first everything mentioned above like witness mark are essential to safe muzzleloading.
As for a crud ring, you don't get that with Pyrodex, only Triple 7.
Now by a new what you call a breechblock do you mean breechplug? That may be the problem. Secondly, on your Knight, did you unscrew the knob on the back of the bolt all the way until the red is completely showing?
Now I'm not sure if you took the bolt assembly apart but if you did, did you reassemble correctly? When you screw in the firing pin assembly into the bolt body did you screw it in all the way THEN BACK OFF so the small protrusion on the firing pin assembly is aligned with the indent on the bolt body, then unscrew the rear knob so they engage?
I'm throwing out possibilities above what was previously mentioned.

 

[geneso]

Boy, do I appreciate any and all of this advice. Bolt was not disassembled, merely has Mr. Fikes addition which totally encloses the primer when the bolt was closed. NO, I do not have a witness mark yet, but will have once I get all this mess straightened out. I do believe I have a 3/8 oak dowel and it will be used, But the idea od using oil for further lubrication to remove the bullet will force me to REALLY clean out this barrel so the next bullet going down the barrel goes down like the first four; some resistance, but not a huge amount, like this very last one. The secondary safety on the rear of the bolt is all the way to the rear and tight. I will still learn about the crud ring. Huge thanks!!

 

[txhunter58]

Unless I missed it, you have not resolved why the primers did not go off (even though it was a Godsend that they didn’t due to short-seating the bullet)

Once you get the powder and bullet out, you need to figure that out before going back to the range

 

[geneso]

I soaked the breechplug in lacquer tinner over night. Then used ta brass brush and the drilling tool supplied to me by Mr. Fike, Then used an acetylene torch tip cleaner to clean out the firing pin hole so it was thoroughly clean. AS suggested I replaced the bolt, placed a new primer in the insert provided br. Mr. Fike and the rifle fired the primer. So, I have learned to remove a bullet with a 3/8 oak dowel, scrub the barrel thoroughly with soapy , boiling water to rid it of Pyrodex Select. Thoroughly dried the barrel, then added Hoppes #9 as a lubricant which will burn well, with BH 209, I am told. I am no longer overawed about aligning the breech plug threads when attaching this device, which was initially frustrating.
All in all, this group has been great is helping me through this challenge, because there is nobody else in this area with this kind of expertise.

Thanks Folks,

WW

 

[ElDiablo]

Thoroughly dried the barrel, then added Hoppes #9 as a lubricant which will burn well, with BH 209, I am told.

That sounds like a bad idea to me…..

No lube is needed. Just clean the barrel, load and shoot.

 

[MrTom]

That sounds like a bad idea to me…..

No lube is needed. Just clean the barrel, load and shoot.

I was going to say, don't use Hoppes without being certain to thoroughly swabbing it out when you're ready to put the gun away. If you're using BH209 you may want to fire a couple primers BEFORE putting the charge down the barrel to psuedo-foul it for the first load. You may not need to. Take the clean , un-fouled gun to the range and see where shot #1 goes on a target relative to where the last decent group went. If shot #1 on a cold, clean barrel hit the bull, you're good to hit the woods. If shot #1 hit high by 3", but shot #2 hits the bull, foul the cold, clean barrel with a couple primers, then load and go hunt.

As ElDiablo alludes to, BH209 does not need any bore wiping between shots but the flash channel in the plug immediately in front of the primer may need reaming after 15-18 shots. When the flash channel gets excessively dirty with carbon build-up the accuracy will go to pt first, then hang-fires start. Clean that channel and you'll be right back in business.

 

[txhunter58]

Agree with above. If I understand and the the last step you did after cleaning was to use Hoppes #9, then when you get ready to shoot I would:
Run 2 patches down (both sides of each)
Then pop off 2 primers to burn any residual Hoppes. Only then will you load with BH powder.

I also do NOT swab between shots with BH 209, but if you do, do NOT use any Hoppes or even spit. Just dry swabs

 

[ENCORE50A]

...........I also do NOT swab between shots with BH 209, but if you do, do NOT use any Hoppes or even spit. Just dry swabs

Why are you so adamant that between rounds "do NOT use any Hoppes" or spit when shooting BH?

A mixture of 50/50 Hoppe's and 91% alcohol is used by all but one, possibly two competitors, to swab between rounds for shooting extremely accurately, along with one dry patch, both sides.
Is it necessary for hunting? No.

 

[txhunter58]

I stand by my statement. I would not recommend Geneso use Hoppes or spit (especially spit) with BH 209. We are taking to a guy who is just trying to shoot for the second time ever. And he had misfires the first time out. I don’t want him to think he should swab with an oil based solvent between shots and possibly get some more misfires.

Once he is familiar with his gun and its workings, and he wants to tweek his accuracy, I have no problem with him using with him using your mixture containing Hoppes if he wants to. But not straight Hoppes.

By why would we have a beginner do that, when he just needs to learn the basics and do that with less steps if possible, not more?

And yes, none is needed for hunting.

 

[ENCORE50A]

As expensive as components are today, teaching/informing a new shooter/s the proven methods that many others that have learned over time, can save them a considerable amount of money and time.

I think his misfires were likely explained why that happened on page 1.

 

[jsteurrys]

Did you ever get a primer(s) to fire without powder and a bullet in the barrel? It sounds like you have 2 issues.

 

[Frontstuffer]

Three shot groups are too small (of a sample size) to really tell you much. But you can use them as “feelers” to see if the group size may fail to meet your expectations. In other words, if a load shoots say a 1.5” group at 100 and you’re looking for a sub MOA group then move on to a different load. Three shot groups won’t predict how well a load will shoot in the future but they may tell you how badly. Personally, I’d go up or down in several grain increments. You won’t see statistically valid differences with very small changes in charge weight (or volume). When you see a group that looks pretty good then shoot a 5-10 shot group with that load.

So what you’re saying makes good sense as the statistics should improve as the square of the number of shots. Like 4 shots to 3 shots would be better by 16/9, or almost twice as good.

 

[Frontstuffer]

Have you figured out your issue with primers not firing?

Yes, it was hammer spring interference.

 

[geneso]

Hello Folks,
I want to start this by thanking the members of this site for being so helpful. If there has been a problem with this whole challenge , it has been misinformation.
To your questions: I soaked the breechplug overnite in lacquer thinner, and thoroughly cleaned it with a brass brus, then the drill tool supplied me by Mr. Fisk, then an acetylene torch tip cleaner ( neat tool) because the primer hole was completely shut. I then mounted it in the rifle after slightly greasing the threads, placed a 209A primer in Mr. Fisks' bolt adapter that completely surrounded the primer in steel, as opposed to the Knight plastic disc. . The primer fired. Suddenly, my "MOUNTAIN" Became a molehill.! Thigs I learned. The amount of fouling was atrocious to me from the small amount of shots I have fired in this weapon now (5). I am an instant convert to BH209 powder, despite the fact I abominate the price and had to order it directly from the factory. Supply and demand here in New Mexico is ridiculous. A major vendor here has not been able to obtain ANY primers in over three years of trying!
Another source of disinformation was the factory that created the barrel for Knight some time ago. Thie brand (western branding nomenclature) is what is called a "lazy M" stamped on the barrel. I gave them the serial number of the rifle and they confidently told me that the barrel was created only for round balls and was a 1-40 twist. I took out the breech lug and I could see that the twist was definitely not 1-40, but when checking found out it was 1-28. I was influenced into getting a muzzlebrake. It was supposed to arrive with a metal funnel that was supposed to allow correct seating a bullet and powder through it, which makes sense. That didn't happen so I cannot get to actually shoot the weapon yet. Images had to be sent to the vendor that should prove there is no way in hell the package of that size could have included this metal funnel. the other thing learned after the fact was that saboted bullets cannot be used in a muzzlebrake. Well meaning people have generously supplied me with 9 different types of saboted bullets for my 50 caliber rifle.
So, I regard all this as result of my own ignorance and that is why this site has been so valuable to me. In just four days, I have received major advice that has completely altered my knowledge of muzzleloading rifle components. I have set Worlds records with other types of firearms. I will be receiving a special type of sizing die AND INSTRUCTIONS, so that maybe, a month from now. might laugh this off as to my ignorance. The weapon will be used for Elk hunting here in New Mexico so I find the full sized 50 caliber bullet shoud prove ideal to deal with this very vital, large animal.

Thanks folks

 

[ENCORE50A]

geneso......................

Sabots can be used in certain brakes, radials. They should not be used in tactical style brakes.

Example of a radial with metal funnel: