Blackhorn 209 by weight is not measuring up to volume line

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MrTom said:
Absolutely.

.............. Others' like myself, want more control and consistency. We don't see it as more work. We see it as a regular part of a routine we use to make certain they we have done everything we can to be as consistent as we can because we understand how the lack of consistence can affect our shooting......
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THAT ↑
 
HV-Muzzleloaders said:
The contact person at Hodgdon may be some computer geek that does not have any practical experience in shooting a muzzleloader. Anyone doing benchrest shooting will probably tell you they weigh their powder. A friend of mine just paid close to a thousand dollars for a lab-grade scale that weighs powder within 0,02 grains.
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Yep, and they're worth every penny, imo.
 
LBAhunter said:
Just asking....
Is that the most accurate load in your rifle or do you just want to shoot the max load?
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Haven't got to max yet, still working on my best group.But I would like the highest velocity and a good group, with a safe load! There are a lot of questions in my mind with the volume and weight discrepancies.
 
I have never wrestled with this topic though I understand, I only wrestle with my bullets going in the same hole, as a fanatic on being an instinctive natural shooter and not a technical one I am never pursuing the highest velocity rather the most accurate load that I can shoot. All the rifles that I have shot Black Horn in have shot the best for me right at 70 grains by weight maybe slightly above that, maybe slightly below ,it is why I go straight to that load and usually a 250 grain bullet ,and I'm referring to most 28 twist Factory barrels ,sometimes it seems like we're chasing our tails on both sides of this, if you're just looking for a hunting load I think volume is fine, but if even in that hunting load your personality and your own shooting expectations are looking for m o a accuracy I would weigh, no one will talk me out of that, in my own shooting years ago when I started weighing charges my groups went from inch and a half, okay to deer hunt to sub MOA and in many cases less than 3/4 with Factory 28 twist barrels that anchored me permanently in the weighing category, I know many are happy with deer hunting accuracy and many except inch and a half to 2 in groups as being acceptable to go hunt with but for me they're not ,mostly because of the reality of adrenaline and the potential that excitement infuses into the moment of pulling a trigger I maintain an inch and a half rifle with your heart beating is a four or five inch group in many hunting circumstances that's just reality and finding a load that shoots in a clump just gives me a mental security and a belief in my gun and load that I like. I personally believe that for the most it is the inch and a half to 2 in shooters that are looking for the pass through bullets I sure can see the need oh and let me clarify again I realize Black Horn was designed to pour by volume problem is for me the accuracy pouring by volume just was not acceptable though I am a natural shooter and fanatic about it I am obsessive about accuracy bottom line this isn't a question of method is a question of expectations.
 
Mnt monkey said:
I have never wrestled with this topic though I understand, I only wrestle with my bullets going in the same hole, as a fanatic on being an instinctive natural shooter and not a technical one I am never pursuing the highest velocity rather the most accurate load that I can shoot. All the rifles that I have shot Black Horn in have shot the best for me right at 70 grains by weight maybe slightly above that, maybe slightly below ,it is why I go straight to that load and usually a 250 grain bullet ,and I'm referring to most 28 twist Factory barrels ,sometimes it seems like we're chasing our tails on both sides of this, if you're just looking for a hunting load I think volume is fine, but if even in that hunting load your personality and your own shooting expectations are looking for m o a accuracy I would weigh, no one will talk me out of that, in my own shooting years ago when I started weighing charges my groups went from inch and a half, okay to deer hunt to sub MOA and in many cases less than 3/4 with Factory 28 twist barrels that anchored me permanently in the weighing category, I know many are happy with deer hunting accuracy and many except inch and a half to 2 in groups as being acceptable to go hunt with but for me they're not ,mostly because of the reality of adrenaline and the potential that excitement infuses into the moment of pulling a trigger I maintain an inch and a half rifle with your heart beating is a four or five inch group in many hunting circumstances that's just reality and finding a load that shoots in a clump just gives me a mental security and a belief in my gun and load that I like. I personally believe that for the most it is the inch and a half to 2 in shooters that are looking for the pass through bullets I sure can see the need oh and let me clarify again I realize Black Horn was designed to pour by volume problem is for me the accuracy pouring by volume just was not acceptable though I am a natural shooter and fanatic about it I am obsessive about accuracy bottom line this isn't a question of method is a question of expectations.
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do you think that your 70 gbw load needs to be adjusted, as the newer lot numbers seem to move the weights higher with each new lot? just thinking that your load would get bumped up a bit with every new lot . curious of your thoughts on this thanks
 
Yes, it may very well take a slight tweaking, but not much ,I do go straight to that 70 grains by weight and sometimes I'll work up just slightly 70.2 70.3 70.4 and I might work below that slightly I have had just a slight adjustment up or down take my groups from minute of deer to 3/4 of an inch, I can't do that with volume, once I found that and began to do that I could never go back to pouring by volume,,, I will take an inch, a half inch ,even a quarter inch tighter group always rather than settle for that's okay to shoot a deer ,again this is just personal philosophy and I don't mind if others disagree ,I absolutely cannot stand to wound a deer, and I have not lost one in many years so as I mentioned I'm not looking for a pass through bullet I'm looking for a bullet that went exactly where I aimed it but even more than that I'm looking for a load that I have absolute confidence in. Had I never been able to tune even my Factory 28 twist break action rifles to shoot under Moa I personally would not be muzzle loading at all, I would have walked away from it a long time ago, I sold my last centerfire rifle a month ago, I do not own one, also do not own a Muzzleloader that will not shoot less than half inch consistently and it's really not an ego issue it's an obsession.
 
Since I have switched to BH, starting with lot #37 and currently at lot #40, the weight of 100 grains by volume has grown from 70 grains weight to 79 grains weight. How is it possible to maintain the same velocity, energy and trajectory without increasing weight substantially? Asking for a friend.

Bill
 
If I needed to stay right at the exact velocity for instance to keep my scope dope the same I would just ignore that nine grain increase and keep shooting especially if it gave me the accuracy I was looking for, but I would pause for a moment and say you have just made me more secure with weighing rather than pouring by volume. That 70 grains by weight is kind of an anchor concrete position for me as I mentioned I might work up or down slightly nine, grains is quite a bit of increase and then again if it's to keep my numbers and my hold with my scope where I want them that's not so bad.
 
Huh?? I am using a $200 scale now. That is how I know that the actual weight of BH209 is increasing with each lot.
 
It might be possible that the next lot in a year or two drops slightly either way up or down weighing charges helps you keep that tweak more sure you're on the right track my friend
 
No need to watch a videos or Google anything. 🤣 BH209 is consistent from lot to lot by volume. The weight changes.

The answer from Hodgdon when I asked them the question recently about weight variations among lots:

“This is the nature of the materials in this powder. Each batch is formulated by volume and the weight will fluctuate between batches to achieve that. this is why it should always be used by volume and never weighed.

Luke Otte
Customer Service Manager
Hodgdon Powder Co.”
 
ElDiablo said:
“This is the nature of the materials in this powder. Each batch is formulated by volume and the weight will fluctuate between batches to achieve that. this is why it should always be used by volume and never weighed.

Luke Otte
Customer Service Manager
Hodgdon Powder Co.”
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I beg to disagree.

He's someone that answered the phone or emails and provided a a PP answer.

When BH first hit the market, and actually BEFORE it was available at retail and still being tested, it was used by both volume and weight by Western/Ramshot. Its been used by weight for almost 20yrs now, or since it became available for retail sale. Western even provided the conversion for weight, (.7).

You can use the same lot number by volume and it be fairly consistent, but if you change lot numbers and still use it by identical volume, there's a change. Test it. However, use identical bullets and identical loading forces. This was proven 8-10yrs ago by competitors.
Volume to volume with different lot numbers did not provide the same velocities, nor did it by weight. What some did at that time was to increase/decrease the charge to meet an expected velocity for a specific bullet.

NOTE................ I'll be clear......... for hunters and casual shooters, shooting 100yds, they won't notice the change. Extend the range and it will become extremely noticeable.
 
ENCORE50A said:
I beg to disagree.

He's someone that answered the phone or emails and provided a a PP answer.

When BH first hit the market, and actually BEFORE it was available at retail and still being tested, it was used by both volume and weight by Western/Ramshot. Its been used by weight for almost 20yrs now, or since it became available for retail sale. Western even provided the conversion for weight, (.7).

You can use the same lot number by volume and it be fairly consistent, but if you change lot numbers and still use it by identical volume, there's a change. Test it. However, use identical bullets and identical loading forces. This was proven 8-10yrs ago by competitors.
Volume to volume with different lot numbers did not provide the same velocities, nor did it by weight. What some did at that time was to increase/decrease the charge to meet an expected velocity for a specific bullet.

NOTE................ I'll be clear......... for hunters and casual shooters, shooting 100yds, they won't notice the change. Extend the range and it will become extremely noticeable.
Click to expand...
Well, you probably should call up Hodgdon and tell them there’re wrong about their powder….so they stop misinforming people…..
 
ElDiablo said:
Well, you probably should call up Hodgdon and tell them there’re wrong about their powder….so they stop misinforming people…..
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You can't tell them anything either.......... Hodgdon doesn't even make it.
All the things above are proven, not just adlibbed by some desk jockey answering emails or phone calls.
Sorry, but there's no need for me to call some desk jockey to receive bad information. There's enough of it here by people that don't know facts.
 
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