Cva hawken .50 nipple alignment issue

[Muzzy2002]

Hey guys, I have a problem with my ignition system on my CVA HAWKEN .50, my problem is this.. I got a Cva hawken .50 from my old man 3 years ago. When I was 13 years old we walked into a gun shop and bought this rifle brand new and he shot it a few times, he actually injured himself with it, ( I think he didn't have the projectile all the way down or too much powder) so he never shot it again, so 3 years ago I pulled this gun out of the cabinet and decided I would get it shooting again. I got it cleaned and just to make sure the gun would work before loading it, I put a cap on it and wanted to see if it would go off, took 2 tries to get the cap to go off, so I put mother and same thing happened. When inspecting it I noticed the nipple and hammer didn't line up exactly centered. I didn't know what could cause this, it's like new, only shot few times, and always cared for (stored in a case) so I don't think it was damaged by any means, but what else could cause this.. I got the gun from him and he gave me some extras with it, he also gave me some other nipples to try so I don't know if the primers on it were the wrong ones or what. I have some pics of the rifle I will post. Maybe someone can help. I don't know what I should do. I would apreciate any help I could get and thank anyone in advance.

Here are some pics. In the last pic, the nipple is not tightened all the way but his is because I was cleaning the gun and hadn't tighted it. But after tightening it, it didn't make a difference

 

[Muley Hunter]

A wrong cap fit on the nipple can do this. Have you tried to fire the same cap more than once? If it fires on the 2nd try it's an indication of a bad fit. Try a different cap-nipple combination.

If it's hammer alignment you can bend the hammer, but be careful. I've done it on TC hammers. I don't know how brittle the CVA hammer is.

What really concerns me is the condition of the barrel. You say your dad got hurt shooting a load too big, or even worse the ball not on the powder load. Both of those could have damaged the barrel. How was he hurt? Has a gunsmith checked out the barrel?

 

[excess650]

I see exposed nipple threads. The nipple should be fully seated! CVAs have metric threads, so if you have a nipple for a TC, it won't fit unless the threads have been recut.

Too, I see what appears to be some misalignment. It could be corrected by setting the barrel back into the stock another 1/16" or bending the hammer.

 

[Muley Hunter]

He said the nipple wasn't tightened down.

 

[52Bore]

Remember, these are castings and mass assembled. Be sure the hammer screw is tight as well as the interior lock screws.
It also could be the drum screwed into the barrel is 'off' in it's rotation. Caution if loosening solves the problem as it wouldn't be safe to shoot with a loosened drum.
If all is tight and it still doesn't line up, heating and bending the hammer may be the only solution.

 

[Muzzy2002]

Yes as stated above the nipple was not tight at the time of this pic. I have not
Tried shooting it like that just to be clear!! I have cleaned the barrel and looked at everything really good the barrel is beautiful. My dad told me he only shot it a few times and I do remember this as a kid because I was always scared of this gun lol for this reason exactly. I just pulled the gun out and checked it out again. I do believe this is not the original nipple because I got a few different ones with it and this one on it looked the best of all of them. Here is a pic of the nipple tightened down. The screw on the bolster is stripped because I tried to get the screw out years ago when cleaning it so that's another thing I need to have worked.

 

[excess650]

The hammer to nipple location looks OK. If the hammer has been dropped repeatedly, the nipple might be a little mushroomed and not allowing the cap to seat flush. If the caps are too snug, they may not seat. If this is the case, you might want to spin that nipple in a chuck and take a little off the outside diameter and try again.

 

[Muzzy2002]

I don't have any caps yet but when I do I will try to take a video. I hope maybe it's just the nipple or maybe the caps I was using were just crap. Because when I would shoot it with no load just a cap, it would take 2 tries to make it go off. Had 2 caps do this to me.

 

[Muley Hunter]

Sounds like the caps are too tight on the nipple. They aren't seating all the way down. The first hit from the hammer shoves it on further and it fires the 2nd time.

There's no standard for nipples and caps. You have to find a combo that works.

 

[Muzzy2002]

Ok. Do caps get old? The caps were probably 20 years or so old.

 

[Muley Hunter]

I suppose, but they wouldn't have gone off if they were that bad.

 

[Muzzy2002]

Ok. Thanks for your help. I appreciate it. Im
Pretty new when it comes to this stuff and just trying to start a new hobby. I have looked into some flintlocks as well. I have 3 inlines and the percussion. They're cool to mess with.

 

[Muley Hunter]

They're very cool. Good for hunting too. :wink:

 

[Muzzy2002]

My buddies laugh at me because I shoot black powder. Don't get me wrong I have some firearms myself but I love my bp guns more I think. Post some pics of yours if you'd like!! I'm always looking for different models to choose from.

 

[52Bore]

You'll find that different #11 fit slightly different, they very slightly in diameter. (not quite as bad as what we see in 209 primers). Suggestions to spinning/turning down nipple have been given.
From your additional photo, as long as the end of hammer does not hit the cap - then don't worry if it's centered.
Also, I noticed the cut out in the lock-plate for the drum is gapped in the front, is there evidence of the drum rubbing the lock plate?

 

[52Bore]

What we see in 209 primers - varying length.

 

[Muzzy2002]

Not to My knowledge no. Doesn't look like it was rubbing. Everything goes together nicely and fitment is good. I'd like to be able to get that screw out of the drum and replace it. Can anyone suggest what I can do to get it out? I don't think I can get a screwdriver on there.its pretty fubared. (Striped lol) I thought about dremmeling a new slot to use a screwdriver but didn't want to make it worst.

 

[52Bore]

Obviously it's in tight as someone has tried to remove it. If you don't have access to the proper equipment to drill the screw out - you have a good chance of making it worse. You might just file it flat, then put some rusting or bluing solution on the bright metal - then leave it alone.

 

[Muzzy2002]

Ok so i had some time to play with my Cva hawken. I have looked over the nipple issue and think it is that my nipple is too big. I have one nipple here that my caps slide onto nicely (wrong threads so it won't work unfortunately) and the nipple that's on the rifle itself is a bit too big for the cap, When I put the cap on it , it doesn't seat all the way down, so when I pull the trigger the first time, it doesn't ignite the nipple, it just fully seats it, then the following trigger pull ignites the cap. The caps I'm using are #11 caps, is there a Bigger cap I can use that's bigger then the #11? I thought about just filing the nipple down a little so the cap will slide on the nipple all the way down. Would this be ok?

 

[52Bore]

Yes, someone already described to put the nipple in a drill, file down. It will not take much. Hardened steel nipple might be difficult to file.
A strong mainspring will hammer down a #11 every time, regardless of fit.