Field results 300 gr barnes original

[Rifleman]

Well we shot two deer with the barnes at a mv of 2280. Both were complete pass throughs. I shot mine at 110 yds, forward raking shot. Hit the deer in the middle, came out just behind far shoulder. Entrance wound about .45, exit wound about .75 but I sure did not measure it, just guessing here. About a 150lb field dressed buck. The other deer was a about 130 lb, hit behind the shoulder, dbl lung hit. Same,same on entrance and exit. Both deer went down after a couple steps. Not a definitive test by any means but so far so good.

 

[Mountain Man]

Awesome!

 

[SW]

I plan on trying the Barnes also. I expect you've made a good bullet choice. I shot a 19 1/2" spread 8-pt @ 252yds with my new SMI barrel last Saturday(70g 2015,300SST,HPH12 2335'/sec 2" gps @200yds in windy conditions). It had some expansion: about the same as yours. My deer had been previously gut shot and was slowly making its way across a field or I likely wouldn't have taken the shot. Ron's work is very nice. It is my most accurate ML. Glad you're having a good year.

 

[jims]

SW You have posted some excellent groups in the past. If the SMI is the best then that must be quite a shooter, and I was just getting happy with my production barrel. I have one thing in my favor, it would really be quite rare for me to have a shot over 150 yard, most 25 to 100yards so my 3/4 inch groups will suffice I guess(at 100 yards) I would like a bit more speed out of my load however. I don't know why I just do.

 

[SW]

The SMI, even on the NEF action, is my most accurate 200 yd ML. Even more so @ 250 & 300. I think the Douglas barrel, the GREAT breechplug, the 36 twist, excellent crown, and the extra 4 inches which allows the use of slower and gentler powders, all contribute to make a more accurate barrel. It just doesn't slowly de-grade with more shots. Even though RW's excellent vent-liner has helped many of us, the breechplug still slowly fouls, though I don't necessairly believe this is a big factor or even any factor at all. Something necessitates a thorough cleaning ever so many shots. At least for me. The SMI just always shoots the same place and stays sub MOA @ 100 and MOA @ 200 even with the winds we have encountered here in AR and likely elsewhere. I really like the SMI. Its going with me tomorrow(2nd week-end of 2 week-end season) and the Savages are staying home. I still think the Savage 10-ML2 is great, but I prefer my SMI.

 

[big6x6]

I think the Douglas barrel, the GREAT breechplug, the 36 twist, excellent crown, and the extra 4 inches which allows the use of slower and gentler powders, all contribute to make a more accurate barrel.

Same for me with the ULA/Douglas barrel/1:32 twist/breechplug. It always shoots the same. The breechplug NEVER has any residue whatsoever, no maintance whatsoever. I'm still with the N-110 though. I'm seriously thinking of a .45 ULA. :shock:

 

[SW]

I think the Douglas barrel, the GREAT breechplug, the 36 twist, excellent crown, and the extra 4 inches which allows the use of slower and gentler powders, all contribute to make a more accurate barrel.

Same for me with the ULA/Douglas barrel/1:32 twist/breechplug. It always shoots the same. The breechplug NEVER has any residue whatsoever, no maintance whatsoever. I'm still with the N-110 though. I'm seriously thinking of a .45 ULA. :shock:

I had essentially no time to work up a load or sight in between receiving the gun back from Ron and our season. I used his recommended load(70-72g 2015 for either 250 or 300g bullets, I chose 70g) and the 300SST, since I had no other 300g bullets I wanted to use. I think the 300SST is at the limit of what the 36 twist will stabilize. I shot 2 Barnes 285 Spitfires with same load and they were appx 4" apart at 100yds. They are longer than the 300SSTs. When I rebarrel one of the Savages, I am considering a 32 twist in a 50 and the other Savage in a 45 of 28,32 or 36 twist. Though the Savage breechplug certainly seems to have withstood the test of time, it doesn't seem as trouble free as Ron's. The barrel seems to foul more on the Savage. And while I'm at it, the 24 twist certainly allows both shorter and longer bullets, but the 36 seems optimum for the 250/300g jacketed bullets, AND the extra 4" + the 1/2" breechplug difference, allows the use of slower powders which IMO is helpful. As I said before, I like my SMI extremely well.

 

[Anonymous]

[quote="SW I think the 300SST is at the limit of what the 36 twist will stabilize. I shot 2 Barnes 285 Spitfires with same load and they were appx 4" apart at 100yds. They are longer than the 300SSTs. [/quote]

Steve,

I'm glad you like your SMI-- but you cannot compare length of bullet as basis for rate of twist unless they are of the same construction and design.

Greenhill is based on ratio of specific gravity of projectile to air (or other medium). Jacketed lead cannot be compared to heat-treated copper at all.

 

[Anonymous]

Both deer went down after a couple steps. Not a definitive test by any means but so far so good.

So far, they are "muzzleloading batting" 100%. They have, however, been killing deer and larger game for 75 years now-- it is not a new design at all.

 

[SW]

[quote="SW I think the 300SST is at the limit of what the 36 twist will stabilize. I shot 2 Barnes 285 Spitfires with same load and they were appx 4" apart at 100yds. They are longer than the 300SSTs.

Steve,

I'm glad you like your SMI-- but you cannot compare length of bullet as basis for rate of twist unless they are of the same construction and design.

Greenhill is based on ratio of specific gravity of projectile to air (or other medium). Jacketed lead cannot be compared to heat-treated copper at all.[/quote]
Randy,
What twist do you believe would be required to stabilize the 285 Spitfire? I certainly didn't give an adequate test but do believe it must be something faster than 36. The speed range I think will be in the 2330-2375'/sec range(I get a consistent 2335'/sec with 300SST/70 2015).

 

[Anonymous]

Randy,
What twist do you believe would be required to stabilize the 285 Spitfire? I certainly didn't give an adequate test but do believe it must be something faster than 36. The speed range I think will be in the 2330-2375'/sec range(I get a consistent 2335'/sec with 300SST/70 2015).

How about a good, old-fashioned but honest I really don't know? I really don't know.

What I am comfortable with saying is that there are only two primary factors in stabilizing a bullet: rate of twist and muzzle velocity. That's about all there is in producing revolutions per second.

We know that a .45 cal 1:20 rate of twist barrel stabilizes 495 gr. conicals well, deriving the RPS more from twist rate than from MV which is typically 1300 fps or so (defined in Doc White's book, by Sir James Whitworth, and others.)

We know that spire points are harder to stabilize than more blunt ogives, we know that boat tails also require more RPS to stabilize than flat bases, all well documented by the Aberdeen Proving Grounds testing via Hatcher, Whelen, et al.

As published by Barnes bullets, a 1:28 may not be adequate to stabilize a 300 gr. MZ-Expander-- though that observation came from BP / Pyrodex loadings, not from Triple 7 or three pellet loads. With adequate velocity, 1:28 is not a problem.

A "gentler" powder does not make a great deal of sense except for heat of explosions values. I can't imagine acceleration from zero to 2300 fps in under 1.4 milliseconds being "gentle" no matter how it accomplished.

It seems that a 1:28 certainly has done the job for good 200 - 300 yard accuracy with the 285 gr. Spitfire; Knight has well-documented that with their own testing.

Whether 1:30, 1:32, might be the optimal 2300 fps rate of twist, I don't know. That would be a guess, but again-- I don't know.

A looser rate of twist may be a bit easier on sabots, but how much easier as a percentage? Interesting, but again I don't know.

I have to give credence to MMP's generalization that 1:22 is about the limit for reliable sabot function, and even a 1:22 is too tight if moving at high velocity.

Savage's 1:24 is quite good for 300 gr. MZ-Expanders at "moderate" velocities, 2050 fps or so as can be expected from 5744. It has done the same for most .45-70 bullets from 300 to 350 gr. as well.

But, if I were to go anywhere with it-- I agree it would be a looser twist of perhaps 1:26 - 1:30 plenty for low velocity 250 gr. XTP's, yet enough spin for those who want use 300 grainers with some giddy-up and go.

A long way to go to say I don't know. I'll guess 1:30 will do it, but that is just a SWAG.

 

[SW]

I appreciate the time and thought Given in making your reply. I tend to think a 1:30 or 1:32 would likely do it at the 2300+'/sec velocity.

 

[Joe Name]

I dont know about the original.My 6 year old son, Luke has been wanting me to take him deer hunting. Yesterday it was in the 50s so I decided to take him to a blind that has been set up in an alfahfa field for the past month. In the truck Luke said it would be great if we got a buck. I took the back way in so I could look at the field and saw a deer 20 yards or so from the blind.So we pulled in the drive and the stalk through the woods was on .By the time we got to the edge of the field there were 4 does and 1 buck in the field all within 30 yards of my blind I ranged the blind at 150 and the buck finally gave me a shot with his rear to me I put the crosshiers on the middle of his tail and let the 300 grn Barnes X on top of 72 grns of 2015 do it work. the buck ran into the woods and we saw him go down after about 100 yards. When gutting him we found a perfectly mushroomed bullet next to his heart and both lungs were damaged. This buck was only a 6 with a 13" spread but it was realy something to a 6year old on his first time out. The buck dressed out at 130lbs. I have now shot deer from both ends and a buch of different angles sideways. I have to give the Barnes X a thumbs up.I need to get me some originals to try now. Yall remember to take a kid huntig.