Traded a compound bow for a ML. Guy told me it was a Buckhorn, got there and it was actually a Traditions Evolution Tracker NW option! Guy had problems with it and no knowledge of ML's. I got the rifle (cerakote barrel) and all the acc's, ammo, powder, ALL! took over 2 hours to disassemble and thoroughly clean, was filthy! Well worth it. What a deal, can't shoot it til next weekend due to necessary yard work! Pretty excited, haven't shot ML before! QUESTION?-Came with Pyrodex RS powder and SST 250 grn w/sabots. He recommends 150 grains powder and Traditions says that's max. Thoughts?!!! Thanks, Jeff.
First ML for Old guy!
- Thread starter coxral
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coxral said:
IIWM, I'd start out around 110grs volume and work up. The rifle and bullet combination will let you know the best charge. Most of all......... SAFETY FIRST. If you have a question, put it in the in-line forum and its guaranteed you'll get good information. Have fun and be safe.
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So how did the barrel and breech plug clean up?
The SST's and the Pyrodex powder will be ok in that rifle, as long as he kept the powder dry and sealed. I also agree that you did not need 150 grains of it. Most new guys get hung up on what the TV shows and writers use and in some rifles Max charges are not all that accurate and beat you up for nothing. Most good hunting loads only need between 100 and 120 grains. Since it is a NW edition you will need caps (Not Primers) and it is most likely a #11 nipple in it. Get something like the CCI Mag or RWS1075. If you don't have one get a good Volumetric powder measure to measure out your charges. You will also need plenty of patches and should swab with one Lightly Dampened patch (both sides) then dry with one Dry patch (Both Sides) between shots. Do that with short up and down strokes till you reach the Breech plug. A good thing you use to swab is plain old Windex. When you are done for the day be sure to clean the rifle completely and follow up with a good oil to prevent rusting. For the Breech plug you can use a good grease on the threads or even wrap the threads with Teflon tape to prevent sticking the plug and making it easy to remove. Same goes for the Nipple.
One main thing to remember when you go out shooting is to pay attention to what you are doing so you don't drop a second charge or seat a second bullet. If in doubt STOP and remove what you put in and start again. First time out throw a charge, seat a bullet all the way down to the powder and be sure to seat it firmly. Next mark the ramrod with something such as masking tape at the muzzle. This "Witness Mark" can then be used to verify the following loads are the same. If you increase the powder charge move the tape. Once you get a load you like, Permanently mark the rod with a knife mark. Then if you get distracted you can just put the ramrod down the bore and check the mark, if it don't match the muzzle, stop and remove the plug and charge and start over. As mentioned Safety First.
Take your time, be safe and by all means have fun. MLs are a hoot to shoot! :wink:
The SST's and the Pyrodex powder will be ok in that rifle, as long as he kept the powder dry and sealed. I also agree that you did not need 150 grains of it. Most new guys get hung up on what the TV shows and writers use and in some rifles Max charges are not all that accurate and beat you up for nothing. Most good hunting loads only need between 100 and 120 grains. Since it is a NW edition you will need caps (Not Primers) and it is most likely a #11 nipple in it. Get something like the CCI Mag or RWS1075. If you don't have one get a good Volumetric powder measure to measure out your charges. You will also need plenty of patches and should swab with one Lightly Dampened patch (both sides) then dry with one Dry patch (Both Sides) between shots. Do that with short up and down strokes till you reach the Breech plug. A good thing you use to swab is plain old Windex. When you are done for the day be sure to clean the rifle completely and follow up with a good oil to prevent rusting. For the Breech plug you can use a good grease on the threads or even wrap the threads with Teflon tape to prevent sticking the plug and making it easy to remove. Same goes for the Nipple.
One main thing to remember when you go out shooting is to pay attention to what you are doing so you don't drop a second charge or seat a second bullet. If in doubt STOP and remove what you put in and start again. First time out throw a charge, seat a bullet all the way down to the powder and be sure to seat it firmly. Next mark the ramrod with something such as masking tape at the muzzle. This "Witness Mark" can then be used to verify the following loads are the same. If you increase the powder charge move the tape. Once you get a load you like, Permanently mark the rod with a knife mark. Then if you get distracted you can just put the ramrod down the bore and check the mark, if it don't match the muzzle, stop and remove the plug and charge and start over. As mentioned Safety First.
Take your time, be safe and by all means have fun. MLs are a hoot to shoot! :wink:
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With a western version... my guess is that the 250's will shoot well somewhere between 90-110gr powder. I'd probably start at 100 and see how she does. 150 is absolutely not needed. Swab between shots on the bench... you can use anything from a spit patch, to kightly damp alcohol or windex patch. Make sure the bore is NOT wet prior to loading your powder for the next shot. Be sure to clean and oil after shooting. Any Black powder or sub is corrosive...best to clean it as soon as you can, same day is best. Good luck 
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If you have a buddy that shoots M-Ls it will speed things along if you pair up for the 1st range trip. Not essential, but an idea.
Do you plan to hunt with it next Fall?
Do you plan to hunt with it next Fall?
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coxral said:
I'm guessing the powder is pellets and probably old and contaminated.
Buy loose powder and start with 90 grains. If you have never shot muzzleloaders before, nor have anyone nearby to teach you the ropes, then google-search the sport and read-read-read.
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Many companies sell their rifles with the idea that they handle MAGNUM CHARGES. OK, the sales hype over, most rifles shoot much better, meaning more accurate, more recoil friendly, and more pocket book friendly, with much less powder. And if you're worried you will not have the killing power if you "go light" that's another joke.
When you get out there, if loose powder try 90 grains of RS and the Shockwave. If that load is accurate, that will take any white tail deer, hog or bear in north american. You can't kill an animal if you can place your shot. And a lot of shooters, new and old think ... wow, I am shooting 150 grains of powder. And BOOM! they can't hit squat. And sometimes Squat can be hard to hit. But other shooters really cut back their loads and find, I can place my hit in a four inch circle at 100 yards. That means you can take any game you want.
Before the magnum powder charge craze, I used to hunt white tail in Wisconsin (where they can get big) with 70-90 grains of Pyrodex RS and a simple patched round ball. Now granted I was not shooting long distance, but I seldom if ever (can count recovered ball on one hand) found a round ball. Near all were pass through. Although I did recover a ball using 90 grains one time. It went through the first deer killing it and then killed the second deer and lodged under the skin after breaking the spine. That was 80 yards away.
So start low on the charges. See how they shoot. if the group is good, kick it up 10 grains and see what happens. Also like mentioned if the powder is real old and seems to throw all over the place, get a new pound of powder.
When you get out there, if loose powder try 90 grains of RS and the Shockwave. If that load is accurate, that will take any white tail deer, hog or bear in north american. You can't kill an animal if you can place your shot. And a lot of shooters, new and old think ... wow, I am shooting 150 grains of powder. And BOOM! they can't hit squat. And sometimes Squat can be hard to hit. But other shooters really cut back their loads and find, I can place my hit in a four inch circle at 100 yards. That means you can take any game you want.
Before the magnum powder charge craze, I used to hunt white tail in Wisconsin (where they can get big) with 70-90 grains of Pyrodex RS and a simple patched round ball. Now granted I was not shooting long distance, but I seldom if ever (can count recovered ball on one hand) found a round ball. Near all were pass through. Although I did recover a ball using 90 grains one time. It went through the first deer killing it and then killed the second deer and lodged under the skin after breaking the spine. That was 80 yards away.
So start low on the charges. See how they shoot. if the group is good, kick it up 10 grains and see what happens. Also like mentioned if the powder is real old and seems to throw all over the place, get a new pound of powder.
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coxral said:
They're all recoil shy.............
oke:Well, made it out this afternoon. Problems right from the start. Couldn't get the gun to fire. I guess 2 hrs of cleaning was about 30 mins shy! The firing pin/bolt was super gunked, guess I missed that one. Anyway, got it apart and field cleaned. Took 2 to 3 shot rounds, cleaned and repeated. Gun shoots best, so far, at 100 grains of RS with the 225 grn SST's. Had a good time. Tomorrow, CLEAN EVERYTHING!!! Can't wait to take it back out next weekend!
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With pyrodex you will be required to clean ASAP after shooting! Don't wait till the next day, it will start eating metal as soon as fired, and will start pitting if you leave it. I like Triple 7 powder in my White rifles, no problems with crud ring, etc. Not sure about Traditions bores if they are tight or not...anyway have fun, like anything else you will learn from doing!
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toytruck said:
Fwiw, I've shot Pyro RS for over 25yrs and never had an issue. I do try to clean the same day, but sometimes it doesn't happen for whatever reason and have had no issues with any of my rifles, even when I ended up having to clean them the next day. Not saying it couldn't happen, just has never been an issue for me. I have never gone longer than the next day with any powder.
Bottom line, I agree... clean ASAP, regardless of what powder you are shooting. Even on my rifles that shoot BH209, I try and clean them the same day.
Good luck with your rifle Coxral!
I agree with 'now is better' for cleaning, my bad, got lazy! Cleaned up well. Bolt/firing pin was VERY, VERY, gunky! Used Hoppes #9 solvent and a LOT of rusty gunk came out! clean as a whistle now! Gonna get some different powder and bullets and start having fun!
