Help with accuracy problems.

[Hornet22savage]

I purchased a Savage Model 10/110 chambered in .243 Winchester, the gun is a pre-accutrigger gun so it is used. I had the gun shooting great with the Federal 85 gr. Trophy Coppers however I ran out and could not find any more, so I switched to the Hornady American Whitetail 100 gr. Interlock BTSP. Prior to the switch I had developed a problem where the gun would fire apon bolt closing. I removed the action from the stock and found that the trigger screw had backed all of the way out. I re-installed the screw with blue lock tite and then put the action back into the stock. Stock is wood by the way. Accuracy is now gone and I have had the gun back apart several times and have checked that evertthing is the way it shouild be. Nothing is touching that shouldn't be and ect. On occasion and it is rare I can get the gun to print a decent 100 yd. group. Three shots that can be covered with a quarter, most groups are a 3 inch spread. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Widude]

Just a few thoughts' in no particular order.

I bought a used Savage 110 a few yrs ago, 30-06 for $200. A problem was evident when I tried to chamber a round later, the bolt would not close. The stock was so warped it twisted the action to where a factory round would not chamber, wouldn't believe it if I hadn't seen it. It did chamber fine with the stock off. I got a new B&C stock.

I did put a Timney trigger in a relative's 110, much better than the pre-accutrigger.

Once the scope & bases are ruled out as problems, sounds like they did fine before, I'd look to trying various types of ammo. Make sure the barrel is clean too. I'd also get a good feel for things at 50 yrds before I went to 100.

 

[ShawnT]

Hornet22savage,

So you did not get to shoot groups with the new bullet prior to working on the trigger issue?

I myself don't have a Savage, but lots of things can apply to all Cf. Does that action have 3 screws to secure it in the stock, seems I remember savage does have a 3rd screw? If so try loosening up the middle screw and just run it in till it stops but not cranked down. I have seen that screw cause issues in rifles that had them.

Is this rifle bedded? If not then it is quite possible that when you removed the barreled action from the stock that the "Bedding" has changed in that your torque on the screws may now be different. Try this, place a small piece of tape on the action where the action meets the stock. Then loosen the middle screw up several turns, if it has that screw, Leave the tang screw tight, now loosen the front screw at the recoil lug. If you see the tape move away from the stock, then the action is in stress when the screws are tight. If the rifles bedding is right, that piece of tape should not move. If the tape moves then you can try loosening/tightening the screws till your accuracy returns, but it may mean that the real fix is a good bedding job. You might check the barrel to stock fit too, does the barrel now touch the forearm anywhere?

This weekend one of the guys in my club had a Rem 700 Varmint in .223 not shoot a known accuracy load. He was stumped as to why his normal load just quite shooting good. I asked him if he changed anything recently and he told me then that he had cut off the barrel and recrowned it to make the OAL of the rifle shorter. The crown looked ok so he tried Torqueing the screws with his small Anschutz torque wrench that was set at 61 inch lbs. Low and behold the next 2 groups could be covered with a penny!

Just a couple things to try checking.

 

[Hornet22savage]

Well let me try to answer all of the questions. I doubt the stock is warpped the bolt cycles fine and the rounds chamber and eject fine too. The barrel is floated all the way to the recoil lug I can fit at least two pieces of paper between the stock and the barrel. The model 10/110 only has two action screws and I have gone to tightening them in the fassion that Savage reccomends. Torqueing them to 40 in.-lb. starting with the front one and then the rear one. I have noticed that the rear screw is what floats the barrel with it loosened the barrel will touch the forearm. I did a lot of work on the factory trigger with the help of a member over on dougs. I did not shoot any groups with the new ammuntion before doing the work on the trigger however since then when the gravitational pull of the moon is just right it will shoot exceptionally well. I have ruled out myself by shooting everythting I own to prove It's not me. The scope is new and the bases have not been touched since there installation last year. I spent all summer with it shooting woodchucks at ranges of 250 yards with no problems. Then new scope did sight in just fine before the problem began, oh it's a Redfield Revenge so I doubt that it is bad could be though.

 

[ShawnT]

Is that Factory ammo you are shooting? If so do you have anything else with the 85 grain bullet weight?

Do you have any idea what twist the barrel is?

Is the stock wood or composite?

If you were to keep the rear bolt tight and loosen the front bolt, what happens to the barrel, any idea?

 

[ShawnT]

I was just looking through a Cabelas flyer that came today and saw that both of those are Factory ammo. If it is not just that the rifle don't like the Hornady ammo, then I would guess t is still in the bedding. You might just need to try something else in the 85gn range too. My Brother had an H&R Handi rifle in .243 that loved the 85 grain bullets but did not like 100 grainers at all.

 

[Hornet22savage]

Barrel twist is 1:9.5 I beleive, stock is wood. In the current ammo crisis here in NY I can't find anything else other than 100's be it Federal, Hornady, ect. I did shoot 100's from the gun before and I had no problems holding a 1 inch group at 100 yds. Shortly after I bought the gun I fired 5 shots as fast as I could and all five landed in a one inch square. I have not tried loosening the front action screw I'll try that and see how the action reacts. Lots of suggestions for me to try. Now that hinting season is here I con only use the range at my club on saturdays and sundays 12 to 3 so it will be end of the week before I get a chance to shoot again.

 

[GM54-120]

Is the front scope base touching the recoil lug? Its a known issue on the Savage MLII so it might happen on a CF action too.

 

[Hornet22savage]

It appears to be touching yes. How does this become a problem? I had the gun sighted in before with no problems and all I changed when I changed scopes was the rings, I kept the bases the same.

 

[ShawnT]

It appears to be touching yes. How does this become a problem? I had the gun sighted in before with no problems and all I changed when I changed scopes was the rings, I kept the bases the same.

Base screws should not touch the recoil lug or bottom out in the holes, this would prevent them from fully tightening the base down to the action, you might not be able to "Feel" it but it leaves the base a bit loose and can move under fire. Just file it off a bit and resecure it.

 

[Hornet22savage]

The base itself touches the recoil lug not the screw. I spoke with the sales person a Dick's today he told me that a lot of people are having trouble with this ammunition. I know where I can get some Federal 100 gr. PSP I might go get a box and try them.

 

[ShawnT]

The base itself touches the recoil lug not the screw. I spoke with the sales person a Dick's today he told me that a lot of people are having trouble with this ammunition. I know where I can get some Federal 100 gr. PSP I might go get a box and try them.

Opps, Sorry dude I mis-read that.

 

[Hornet22savage]

Ok so this morning I spent around an hour cleaning the rifle. I started with patches of Hoppes #9 and finished with a copper brush and hoppes. I went out and purchased some Gun Slik Copper Klenz that I will run through later to see if there is copper fouling in the barrel. I suspect it considering when brushing with the hoppes I was getting copper flake on my cleaning rod. I also loosened the front action screw while looking for movment. I saw very little however it maybe there. Savage reccomendes a torque of 30 - 35 in.-lb. however my wrench starts at 40 so thats what I began using. Up until now I have been hand tightening until no noticeable stock action movement could be seen. While I was out I also picked up a box of Federal soft points and a box of Winchester Power Points both are 100 gr. I hope to get to the range tomorrow and shoot.

 

[ShawnT]

If you are using regular Hoppes, it don't really cut copper, it's more for carbon and plastic. They do have one that is supposed to remove copper though. We used to use regular Hoppes #9 and then follow it with Shooters Choice (for copper) but I have switched to Butches Boreshine and really like it. It cuts the copper so I don't need to JB as often. My Cf rifles don't build up copper as bad since switching to BBs. If the copper has really built up then JB on a real tight fitting patch is the way to go to get it out, plus some elbow grease. I usually keep one worn down brush handy that I cleaned off with Lighter fluid. I wrap a patch around that brush and it will fit the bore pretty tight.

 

[Hornet22savage]

PROBLEM SOLVED IT WAS THE AMMUNITION. Apparently my gun hates the Hornady American Whitetail 100 BTSP. I switched to the Winchester Power Points and was shooting clay pigeons at 110 yds. by the end of the hour. I never in a million years would have thought that two 100 gr. loads would shoot so differently. Thanks for all of your help.