How many shots before accuracy loss

[vaguru]

Curious as I forgot to check this out when working up loads. I normally wet patch dry patch my barrel between shots when using T7, Pyrodex or black powder. I know how many shots I can get with accuracy from my Knight MK-85 with Pyrodex, but neglected to see how many shots I can get from my CVA Optima with T7 before accuracy suffers.

Under hunting conditions I have patched as above in the past when possible, but what if I don't patch?

Those of you with experience with T7, shooting saboted bullets, how many shots without patching can you shoot before groups become erratic or too large for deer sized game at 100 yds?

Again, just curious as there might be an occasion where more than one deer could be shot from the same stand during the same sit as we are allowed 2 deer per day here now. Normally, one shot one down dead deer but there could be a time when a follow up is needed and possibly have the 3rd load in the barrel without patching.

Oh, and btw, my rifle puts the first cold clean shot in the group so no issues there.

Thanks in advance for replies.

 

[Saxtonyoung]

I too like to patch between shots but I use to practice shooting 3 quick shots of either Sabot loads or bore sized bullets at 100 yards using T7 without patching between shots for the same reason your questioning and could easily keep 3" groups. Granted by the time you got to the 3rd shot the crud ring made loading harder and that's where a good range rod came in handy. When stand sitting with a muzzleloader I often take the gun case with me so I would have a range rod on hand.

 

[Boreal]

With T7 I run a bristle brush down the barrel between shots to knock down the crud ring. I've shot two deer simultaneously several times.

 

[Scotts98rt]

In my .54 knight I'm running 120 gr. And have killed deer on the 4-5 th shot, no patching or cleaning between shots

 

[vaguru]

Thanks guys

 

[LarryBud]

With T7, I don’t think I’d ever get a saboted load back on the powder without swabbing.

I can reload a conical once or twice but doubt I could Get a tight fitting sabot past the crud ring.

 

[sabotloader]

With T7 and primer ignition I can get 4-5 shots before the crud ring becomes a problem. With cap ignition normally I will go 15 shots then run a damp Blue Windex patch to clear the little bit of 'crud ring' and barrel fouling.

To me.... the cooler the ignition source the less 'crud ring' and barrel fouling. Another factor I fee is important when using any of the subs, excluding BH. Do not use real petroleum products in the barrel. It takes awhile to condition your bare after using a petroleum product but eventually the effects of the 'crud ring' will be reduced - in most cases.

 

[mtn. archer]

I like triple 7 but I get a horrible crud ring so I went to bh209 been buying what I can at Wally world 36 a jug .

 

[LarryBud]

With T7 and primer ignition I can get 4-5 shots before the crud ring becomes a problem. With cap ignition normally I will go 15 shots then run a damp Blue Windex patch to clear the little bit of 'crud ring' and barrel fouling.

I’m not doubting the above statement but we sure have different results. I use T7 3F and Winchester 209 Primers. I crud up significantly with a single shot. If I tried to load 4-5 shots, on the 2nd or 3rd my load would be jammed up about 3” off the breech plug.

I do use Birchwood Casey Barricade oil for storage.

 

[HC]

Same here .

 

[sabotloader]

I’m not doubting the above statement but we sure have different results. I use T7 3F and Winchester 209 Primers. I crud up significantly with a single shot. If I tried to load 4-5 shots, on the 2nd or 3rd my load would be jammed up about 3” off the breech plug.

I do use Birchwood Casey Barricade oil for storage.

I can not remember if Barricade contains a petroleum product or not. I was looking for a can here but do not have one any more and I know I quit using it for a reason. So possibly it could be a big part of your problems. Especially as the oils soak into the bore metal. Then it take quite awhile to get the residual out of you barrel.

I found my can.... it does contain petroleum distillates so it might be adding to your 'crud ring' problems. You might try to find a pure synthetic oil, even then it will take awhile to turn it all around.

Again just my thoughts... and what has helped me.

 

[vaguru]

Question,

CVA barrel ships with some sort of "lube" in the barrel. Cleaning with lacquer thinner or acetone until patches come out clean. Now does this still leave a petroleum distillate in the barrel for possible crud ring build up?

How many shots before the petroleum distillates are "shot out"?

After shooting, cleaning with hot water, drying with heat (hair dryer) and then leaving barrel unlubed as it is SS. Is this the best that can be done to prevent crud ring problems or is there another method?

 

[mtn. archer]

I’m not doubting the above statement but we sure have different results. I use T7 3F and Winchester 209 Primers. I crud up significantly with a single shot. If I tried to load 4-5 shots, on the 2nd or 3rd my load would be jammed up about 3” off the breech plug.

I do use Birchwood Casey Barricade oil for storage.

I was having same issue with the t7

 

[edmehlig]

Never experienced a crud ring when I used Pryodex P with my Whites. But I made sure I cleaned them real good afterwards.

 

[LarryBud]

Never experienced a crud ring when I used Pryodex P with my Whites. But I made sure I cleaned them real good afterwards.

I believe it’s a T7 with a 209 primer issue.

I still use T7 but I don’t expect a 2nd shot if I’m using sabots. Actually, I’ll only use it at the range with sabots where I can reasonably swab between shots.

I will use it for hunting if Im shooting conicals.