I probably should have said that the Nosler .458 BT Hunting bullets are the boxed version of Nosler's Muzzleloader bullets. They are designed to expand at MZ velocity. They can be used with the orange Sabots, but I had luck with black crush ribs. I think lots of guys also shoot them in 458 SOCOM. I found them to be extremely accurate. I think one of the on-line gun writers did a review on them a while back.