New to the muzzleloader… could use some input

[Toledodoeshooter]

Hello All! I have been reviewing your forum for the past few weeks and have already gained a good amount of knowledge thanks for that. New to muzzleloaders and some of this info may already be out there figured I’ll post the question. Just got a cva wolf, vortex scope, went shooting for the first time today. Using two 777 pellets and SST 250 grain bullets. Since purchasing those after doing more digging it seems like I should look for something else due to bullet expansion issues. Shot the gun today for the first time and it was going great until it didn’t. Started at 25 yards went to 50 and then to 100 shot two or three at 100 with I’ll say 4 inch groups. I was running a damp and then dry patch down the boar and cleaning out the breech plug about every three shots. And then I gave the gun more of a deep clean using a wire brush and then running patches through and it was like my POI completely changed and I was just about off paper at 100 yards. I thought scope at first but then I thought maybe it was because of the more deep clean at that point I was down to about five bullets left so I decided I would do the same deep clean in between every shot and make adjustments. That got me to about a good enough group to hunt with I would have been hitting a paper plate but I’ll need some more adjustments. I’m not sure completely if it’s the scope or the barrel heating up or the cleaning procedure it may be another week or two before I can get back out to the range. I was surprised by the amount of buildup and I’ve done a good amount of reading suggesting using black powder so I’m already thinking about making that change as well so here’s the questions.

1) do you think the cleaning process would have changed my point of impact that much? It seems like that’s the culprit but I’m not 100% certain yet

2) can I shoot loose powder with the stock breech plug or do I need to order a different one?

3) if I switch to loose powder do I need to change primers as well?

Any insight or other general tips are appreciated the gun with a bang every time so that’s good but I can see this is definitely a different thing than standard rifles

 

[MrTom]

Did you make sure the scope base screws were tight as well as the ring screws after shooting a couple times or secured with red Loctite? Also, that 250 grain SST may need to be pushed a bit harder than two pellets will push it.

Consistency is a key factor here so if you wipe the barrel between every other shot then every third shot then wipe after one shot, there is no consistency. Using T7 I suggest wiping with a damp patch after ech shot so there is uniformity to your shooting and thus making it less likely that there's an issue with the bore when shot. Not a wet patch, just a slightly dampened patch.

You can switch to T7 granular with your factory plug but you may get more reliable ignition by switching to the BH209 plug when you use the granular T7 powder or pyrodex granular. The granular powder will most certainly allow you a whole lot more flexibility in developing loads down the road. Primer-wise the primers referred to as "muzzleloader" primers are fine with either powder and less likely to create a serious crud ring like shotgun reloading primers can create.

Sometimes these new guns won't really shine until they've been shot 100 or more times.... call it a break-in period. That said, I suggest buying a box of 100 Hornady XTP 250 grain, non-magnum, pistol bullets, the appropriate sabots from Harvester and the T7 ffg or fffg granular powder and go shoot using 100 to 110 grains of powder measured by volume. AFTER you've loctited the scope bases and rings. Those bullets are just about the gold standard for that Wolf gun and they do a superior job on deer sized animals and even elk. Wipe the bore after each shot. I'm willing to bet that things will turn a corner in your favor with this. If you cannot get your hands on those 250 grain XTPs, try finding some 240 grain non-magnum numbers as they're just as effective and accurate. Getting that gun to shoot will not break the bank but it will call for you sitting down and doing some shooting and practicing the wiping, which in turn will be helping to create some good habits that will follow you to the woods.

Let us know how things go.

 

[Toledodoeshooter]

Did you make sure the scope base screws were tight as well as the ring screws after shooting a couple times or secured with red Loctite? Also, that 250 grain SST may need to be pushed a bit harder than two pellets will push it.

Consistency is a key factor here so if you wipe the barrel between every other shot then every third shot then wipe after one shot, there is no consistency. Using T7 I suggest wiping with a damp patch after ech shot so there is uniformity to your shooting and thus making it less likely that there's an issue with the bore when shot. Not a wet patch, just a slightly dampened patch.

You can switch to T7 granular with your factory plug but you may get more reliable ignition by switching to the BH209 plug when you use the granular T7 powder or pyrodex granular. The granular powder will most certainly allow you a whole lot more flexibility in developing loads down the road. Primer-wise the primers referred to as "muzzleloader" primers are fine with either powder and less likely to create a serious crud ring like shotgun reloading primers can create.

Sometimes these new guns won't really shine until they've been shot 100 or more times.... call it a break-in period. That said, I suggest buying a box of 100 Hornady XTP 250 grain, non-magnum, pistol bullets, the appropriate sabots from Harvester and the T7 ffg or fffg granular powder and go shoot using 100 to 110 grains of powder measured by volume. AFTER you've loctited the scope bases and rings. Those bullets are just about the gold standard for that Wolf gun and they do a superior job on deer sized animals and even elk. Wipe the bore after each shot. I'm willing to bet that things will turn a corner in your favor with this. If you cannot get your hands on those 250 grain XTPs, try finding some 240 grain non-magnum numbers as they're just as effective and accurate. Getting that gun to shoot will not break the bank but it will call for you sitting down and doing some shooting and practicing the wiping, which in turn will be helping to create some good habits that will follow you to the woods.

Let us know how things go.

Really do appreciate the response and information you’ve opened my eyes to a few things here. I didn’t realize you can buy the bullets and sabots separately for starters…. I checked the scope on the range but going to check it again tomorrow. And the insight on consistency in between shots. You gave me a lot of good information I appreciate it. I read that the powder burns better and leaves less residue whether that’s true or not I may give that a shot too. There’s a lot a lot more to this than I realized but looking forward to learning more and getting it figured out.

 

[Jitterbug]

Toledodoeshooter-

MrTom is a well-respected member here, with a wealth of experience. He has given you a WEALTH of good advice!

If you follow his advice, I would think that you’ll be well on your way to success.

I’ll just add my own $0.02, to his advice:
1) I’d go ahead and remount the scope base and rings, to eliminate that variable.
2) Be sure to clean and degrease all the screws and drilled/tapped holes, related to your bases/mounts/rings.
3) In my experience, blue (low strength) Loctite is sufficient.
4) Once you’ve chased everything else down- if you’re still having problems… try a different scope. There’s always a chance that you have a bad scope.

Welcome to the Forum!

 

[illinoishunter]

Couldn't agree more with what's been said above. But to drive it home. Remove scope base and clean and loctite threads. Then go burn some powder. It'll come together. If not replace the scope and don't over tighten the forend screw. Just snug, I use just fingernail tight with no issues.

 

[Toledodoeshooter]

Appreciate all the added insight everyone. What’s the thought on standard loose 777 powder vs using Blackhorn for a casual shooter-worth it?

And are these the correct sabots I would need they’re the black ones.

 

[illinoishunter]

Appreciate all the added insight everyone. What’s the thought on standard loose 777 powder vs using Blackhorn for a casual shooter-worth it?

And are these the correct sabots I would need they’re the black ones.

Most have good success with those sabots. T7 and Bh209 are both good powders with their own benefits. Most choose based on money. Bh209 is 4 times the cost. T7 shoots very similar to 209 but requires frequent cleaning and is more corrosive.

 

[MrTom]

Appreciate all the added insight everyone. What’s the thought on standard loose 777 powder vs using Blackhorn for a casual shooter-worth it?

And are these the correct sabots I would need they’re the black ones.

The Blackhorn and T7 granular in ffg and fffg shoot nearly identical for me in my in-lines that I hunt with. During the off season when the deer season is closed, I still shoot a lot at the range and use T7. I verify my loads for the up-coming deer season using Blackhorn, get the guns cleaned and use the Blackhorn for hunting.

Since Blackhorn is spendy, doing what I do allows me to shoot quite often using the T7 to minimize cost, but still allows me to enjoy the positive benefits that come with using BH in the woods. The T7 charges are identical to the Blackhorn charges by volume based on each gun I am shooting. I think you'll find that T7 and Blackhorn will each shoot very well using volume measuring: a 110-grain volume charge of T7 ffg will likely shoot very near identical to the same 110 grains by volume of Blackhorn once the gun is sighted in.

On the sabots: if you're using a .45 caliber bullet that falls into the .451-.452 size range the black sabot should work. IF that sabot loads very hard the black crush rib sabot may offer easier loading. If you decide on a bullet that is .429-.430 size, the green or the green crush rib will be the ones to use. Just be aware that Blackhorn powder like to have some serious loading pressure on it and that if the gun loads TOO easily using a crush rib and Blackhorn you might start experiencing hang fires or flat-out duds. I hunt with Blackhorn and use plain sabots with my bullets since they load fairly stiff and do not come off the charge once set during normal gun handling during a hunt.

If are thinking of shooting Blackhorn, be sure to order a Blackhorn compatible breech plug. They are not that spendy and you'll get far better ignition. And if you go the Blackhorn route, be sure to use primers that are made for shotgun reloading and not the ones referred to as "muzzleloader" primers. The shot shell primers are far hotter and assure of consistent ignition of BH. Personally, I'd simply buy the shotshell primers and use them for both powders and learn to tolerate the crud ring that will come with shooting the T7.... a simple damp patch followed by a dry one after each T7 shot will bump the crud ring at the range so really its a non-issue.

I'll also point out that for cleaning, the T7 powders are cleaned up using a water based solution and the BH is cleaned using a solvent like Hoppes 99. Your cleaning supplies should include a bore mop as well as a bore brush in the appropriate gun caliber, in your case 50 caliber. Patches are your friend so make sure you buy plenty.

 

[brad502a]

Mr Tom is spot on, the only thing I would change is not to use RED loctite and use Blue.

 

[MrTom]

I agree Brad.... the blue is what he would want to use.

 

[jd24.5.48]

If you want a good loose powder breech plug, SSK sells a good one and it is cheaper than one from Cva!

 

[jd24.5.48]

My brother shoots a Wolf using 100 grain by volume with a hornady xtp 240 and a black crush rib sabot and gets 1.5-2 inch groups at 100yds!

 

[ElDiablo]

My brother shoots a Wolf using 100 grain by volume with a hornady xtp 240 and a black crush rib sabot and gets 1.5-2 inch groups at 100yds!

Would that be the 250 gr XTP .45 in a black crush rib? I believe the 240 gr XTPs are .44 (so that would be a green sabot).

 

[jd24.5.48]

Would that be the 250 gr XTP .45 in a black crush rib? I believe the 240 gr XTPs are .44 (so that would be a green sabot).

You're correct, he's shooting the green sabot! Sorry about that!

 

[Toledodoeshooter]

Was able to shoot 5 shots today to verify zero before hunting at 70 yards. Gun was clean going back in and decided to clean the same before every shot. Re tightened scope. Tried to apply the same pressure loading the bullets between each shot. Shooting the SST 250’s and 2 pellets again. Off a table with a rest. I’ll just say I’m hitting a paper plate but accuracy isn’t there. Some go right some go left. Based on the input ya’ll gave I’m planning to just work on dialing it in with loose powder and a pack of 100 xtp bullets in the spring.

 

[Philgumbo]

Most have good success with those sabots. T7 and Bh209 are both good powders with their own benefits. Most choose based on money. Bh209 is 4 times the cost. T7 shoots very similar to 209 but requires frequent cleaning and is more corrosive.

I've never had a problem with T7 being corrosive. And I 'season the barrel with a little Bore Butter. Never had a problem with corrosion.

 

[illinoishunter]

I've never had a problem with T7 being corrosive. And I 'season the barrel with a little Bore Butter. Never had a problem with corrosion.

""More corrosive"" all black powder and it's subs are corrosive. Cheers on the upkeep of your weapons. I'm a thorough cleaner as well. I have a buddy who didn't clean a new optima for a year, still don't know if he has and it was rusted up horribly last I saw it. Had a hard time opening the breech and couldn't remove the plug. Just saying I wouldn't not clean a T7 rifle much sooner then a bh weapon.