Nipple Life

[Idaholewis]

Big charges of powder (80+ Grains) and heavy bullets (400+ Grains) REALLY get rough on nipples, The numbers i just listed are reference, You get the point, BIG bullets, BIG powder charges = Rough on nipples. Lot of you folks already have a good understanding of this, just figured i would share for the newer guys.

Each time you shoot your Muzzleloader there is a certain amount of Gas that escapes back up through the nipple (flash hole) This hot Gas is constantly (eroding) chipping away at the flashole, making it larger shot after shot. The heavier the bullet, and the larger the powder charge, the sooner and more pronounced this shows up.

I shoot big heavy bullets and large powder charges pretty much exclusively, i was averaging between 20-30 shots on a brand new Stainless RMC nipple and they were JUNK. I switched over to Treso/Ampco nipples about 2 years ago, they are VERY VERY DURABLE!! They Far and away outlast Stainless nipples, i am approaching 200 shots on 1 Treso/Ampco And it’s stil going strong! I have 2 that i have been HAMMERING on for a LONG time and they are both stil going strong. I recently measured the flasholes on the 2 nipples i just mentioned and i got .030, and .031, The Treso Ampcos Start out at a tiny .028, Treso/Ampcos have an impressive lifespan!

Here are a couple of comparison pictures of nipple flash hole size, Here is a new Treso/Ampco next to an MSM Spitfire nipple, This Spitfire nipple had under 30 shots on it, and it was Junk

Here is a Treso on the left that has had a BUNCH of shooting through it, and another Stainless on the right with under 30 shots, The Stainless is junked out, The Treso stil going strong

 

[Idaholewis]

If you Shoot Substitute powders the Treso/Ampco .028 Flash holes are to small to reliably set the Substitutes off, they need to be drilled out to about .032-.033 For reliable ignition. I found this out on an outing with Pyrodex P and a brand new Treso/Ampco nipple, My first shot was more of a fizzle, hardly any recoil, my bullet didn’t make it to the target, i loaded up and headed home, That was my last outing with Pyrodex, i went back to my real Blackpowder and have never looked back at the substitutes, Real black goes off IMMEDIATELY with a brand new Treso/Ampco with the tiny .028 Flash hole, I couldn’t make myself drill out a brand new nipple just to use the Pyrodex P, But then again i have EASY access to real Blackpowder of any Brand/Grade through BACO.

You guys that are forced to use the Substitute powders just need to keep in mind that you will need to slightly open the Flash Hole on a brand new Treso/Ampco in order to get reliable ignition. I use a cheap set of torch tip cleaners to measure my Flash holes, find the 1 that just fits in the flashole, and the next size up that Won’t fit, measure the 2 with with your calipers, while not scientific, it will get you REALLY close. This is how I monitor flash hole wear

 

[280Bravo]

Thanks for the info very helpful.
Where do you find the nipples at who sale them.

 

[Idaholewis]

Think about it, As a nipple erodes, so can accuracy, each shot is slightly changing in pressure due to more gasses escaping back through the flashole as it gets larger from erosion. BACO sells a Platinum lined nipple, at 60-65 bucks a piece I wasn’t impressed enough to continue on with them. The Treso/Ampco nipples are under 5 bucks, or right at it, and they hold up EXTREMELY well.

As the nipples Flash Hole gets larger from erosion it will eventually cause your hammer (Sidelock) to go in to half cock after firing from the escaping gasses pushing the hammer back. I see MANY times, guy’s talking about hangfire problems (with real Blackpowder) and there remedy was to drill out the nipple flash hole to allow more spark in, There is a GOOD REASON nipple manufacturers use a small flash hole, There is a point where the enlarged flash hole would become dangerous. 99.9% of hangfire problems in a Sidelock are from the Fire Channel, Patented Breech/Powder chamber, Being plugged up NASTY from improper cleaning, or lack of cleaning at all, Lot of folks don’t realize there is such a thing as a Patented Breech/Powder Chamber, Fire channel

I swear by a good DEEP steam cleaning directly through the Snail/nipple hole, on a ‘new to me barrel’ Before i ever shoot the barrel for the first time, After you get the Fire Channel, Patented Breech/Powder chamber DEEP CLEANED 1 time that is all that is needed, from that point on i just use the half bucket of water cleaning method, Pull water up in the barrel with your cleaning rod and a good fitted patched jag, about halfway up the barrel go back the other direction FAST, This RUSHES the water back through and out the Snail/nipple hole effectively cleaning the Patented breech/Powder chamber, And fire channel, Do this several times each cleaning. The silicone tubing attached to the Steam Cleaner and Flush out nipple in the photo below is not needed but sure works Good! All you need to do is point the Nozzle of the Steam cleaner in the nipple hole and blast steam through it for 30 seconds to a minute, this will clear the GUNK that could not be reached otherwise.

This came from a barrel that i was SURE was clean, After getting the little steam cleaner i thought what the heck, I’m gonna check my ‘Clean’ Renegade, This is what my patches looked like in session AFTER i Blasted steam through the Snail/nipple hole, To say i was shocked was understatement! This Gunk/Rust was coming from the Fire Channel, Patented Breech/Powder Chamber, Can you say HANGFIRE? Here’s your sign!

 

[Idaholewis]

Thanks for the info very helpful.
Where do you find the nipples at who sale them.

They are available from a few places online, even Ebay, I get mine from Buffalo Arms, they have a fairly large assortment of them. I recently ordered 2 Treso/Ampco nipples from Jedediah Starr since BACO didn’t have these particular ones in stock, I wasn’t impressed with Jedediah Starr and personally would never order from them again, but they show to carry a large Assortment of the Treso/Ampco nipples.

 

[long shot]

most that shoot large conicals or PP use platnium lined nipples Baco sells but are exspensive

 

[Idaholewis]

most that shoot large conicals or PP use platnium lined nipples Baco sells but are exspensive

I am very familiar with those, had 2 of them, traded them for a barrel. I heard issues of the Platinum liner blowing out, they cost to much to make good sense to me. I’ve talked with Guy’s that really like them, and guys that don’t. The Treso/Ampcos are holding up for me EXTREMELY well, i know for a fact i can get 200 shots on a nipple, i am there now with 1 and it’s stil going strong! And at 4.50 a piece it’s hard to beat, I don’t know of any other nipple that will hold up like these, other than the Platinum lined of course, that’s if you can keep the liners in them

 

[long shot]

just saying , but you dont shoot long strings ofshots like in Matches. Don't know who told you the liners blow out hole might get larger,

 

[Idaholewis]

just saying , but you dont shoot long strings ofshots like in Matches. Don't know who told you the liners blow out hole might get larger,

45cal, I appreciate it! But if you notice in my 3rd post down i mention the Platinum lined nipples

 

[52Bore]

PT has the longest life of anything we've tired over nearly 30 years. They were common in the LR Match rifles of the 1800's. It was due to the high melting temp and high resistance to erosion - spark plugs today use PT. They were shooting the same as we are today with a 500+gr bullets at 1300 +/- fps, we've tried SS, Carbide inserts and have always returned back to PT.
I do feel that even PT has an upper limit, but so far nothing has held up as well.

 

[52Bore]

Don't know who told you the liners blow out hole might get larger,

I would think a 'blow out' is very rare. I did have had some of Joe H. sent to be, after his passing as he threaded his in. I would suspect even he would have replaced under warranty... But, in todays' world just 1/1000 will be what some people remember.

 

[Idaholewis]

It’s doubtful the average joe guy will want to spend 60 PLUS dollars for 1 nipple, The Treso/Ampcos are holding up extremely well for me, I shoot BIG HEAVY bullets and large powder charges EVERY outing, I am gonna go through nipples plain n simple, I am very thankful for The Treso’s, at 200 shots and stil going for 4.50 it’s another ‘Sore Peter’ Deal :yeah:

 

[280Bravo]

Thanks for the info very helpful.
Where do you find the nipples at who sale them.

They are available from a few places online, even Ebay, I get mine from Buffalo Arms, they have a fairly large assortment of them. I recently ordered 2 Treso/Ampco nipples from Jedediah Starr since BACO didn’t have these particular ones in stock, I wasn’t impressed with Jedediah Starr and personally would never order from them again, but they show to carry a large Assortment of the Treso/Ampco nipples.

Thank you

 

[viking]

Idaholewis, I watched Idahoron where he says not to use hot water when cleaning because it flash rusts your barrel. Do you think that the rust is coming from your steamer? From what I've seen you don't need too hot of water to create that flash rust. viking

 

[Idaholewis]

Idaholewis, I watched Idahoron where he says not to use hot water when cleaning because it flash rusts your barrel. Do you think that the rust is coming from your steamer? From what I've seen you don't need too hot of water to create that flash rust. viking

I very much agree with Ron on the flash rust with hot water! I don’t use my steam cleaner that often, i like to use it for a ‘new to me’ barrel so i know i got the fire channel, Patented Breech/Powder chamber really good n clean of any existing gunk, after a heavy steam cleaning i go to my bucket of water method with regular tap cool water and stick with that. After a good bucket of cool water cleaning i dry the barrel the best i can with a bath towel, then move to my air compressor and blow any moisture out from under sights, under rib, and blast air through the nipple hole, then run several more dry patches through the bore, When i know the barrel is THOROUGHLY BONE DRY i coat liberally with a good quality gun oil, i like to see a small amount of oil spit from the nipple, that way i know i got plenty in the Patented breech/Powder Chamber, and snail, i use a patch folded up and lower the hammer on it to pin it down on top of the nipple to catch any excess oil.

I mainly use my steam cleaner for parts such as the hammers, locks, and nipples.