Powder and condensation in the bore, picture.

[Mike Vaccaro]

Cajun,

This is my attempt at your pic posting suggestion.

This pic if it comes thru is about 1\4th of my 100 grain charge of T7 2F after sitting in the gun for 2 days. The gun was cold when loaded and left in a cold truck when not in hand. My truck doesn't have a chance to warm up on the way to my hunting grounds and my hard case keeps the gun cold for quite awhile even if the cab warms up some.

I pulled the breech plug and scraped enough powder out to get the ram rod started from the breech end and pushed the bullet out. We had some rain but i kept the muzz covered with electrical tape and kept the gun in my box blind while hunting.

The powder bound together enough to form a partial pellet. In regards to this topic I will from now on be loading a fresh load every morning of a hunt and either shooting or pushing out the load at the end of each day. The ball of powder appears to have a crust about an 1\8th of an inch thick throughout the outer skin, where the powder contaced the sabot and bore. The core of the powder was semi looose compared to the outer skin.

Also note how the bullet is heavily tarnished compared to the fresh bullet below it. To me this speaks volumes about powder and it's ability to eat stuff. I load on a swabbed fowled barrel and am very particular about my cleaning when done at the range etc. I have not seen any pitting or anything in my stainless Pro Hunter bore but am now convinced that more than a few days is a bad idea to leave a bore fowled.

This pic should help put a little more clarity into the discussion of condensation and how long a charge sits in a gun. I'm sure it would have gone off just fine but cannot say if some performace would be lost in the area of velocity.

Hopefully the pic comes thru. Thanks for the info on how to post up a pic.

 

[big6x6]

In regards to this topic I will from now on be loading a fresh load every morning of a hunt and either shooting or pushing out the load at the end of each day.

SMARTEST thing you ever did! When in doubt, shoot it out! I don't think a couple of days hurts a thing. But this loading a gun at the beginning of the season and keeping the SAME charge in a muzzleloader THE WHOLE SEASON is a joke and is either a recipe for disaster or at the very least a misplaced shot on game animal.

 

[Semisane]

I load on a swabbed fowled barrel

I believe you have identified the problem right there.

I sight in my hunting load for a squeaky clean barrel and leave it in there for as long as I want. Have never had the problem you encountered.

Once you foul the barrel, the fouling immediately sucks up some moisture. When you put a fresh load on that foulling and leave it in there for a day or two you're asking for trouble.

 

[cayuga]

Just because you fowled the barrel would be good reason to shoot the rifle off at the end of the day and clean the barrel. I know that powders can sit in a barrel for a couple days without starting the rusting process, but then I have saw a barrel rust in ONE day. I was shocked when I saw the surface rust after one day.

I empty the rifle every night. Normally I just shoot it off. Then I get home, swab the barrel clean, oil it, and start all over the next day.

 

[toytruck]

I learned this the hard way last year too!! Missed a doe that the charge didn't sound right and I doubt the XTP even made it to her. The pyrodex pellets had been in my Encore for only about ten days.

Pellets do have an advantage to just push them out and reload (keep those pellets for range work). Loose powder you might as well shoot it out cause your gonna have a powder cleanup anyway.

 

[Cajun]

Good post, I think it does verify some of the mistery floating around. I'm glad the picture worked out for you.

 

[RAF]

Pushing out the load only salvages the bullet and not the powder. I would never reuse the powder. Pushing out the load creates another problem as I see it. You have to take you're bolt out and your POI may change slightly. It's easier, and quicker to just shoot it. That shot can also be considered as practice :wink:

 

[sabotloader]

Mike Vaccaro

Guess it all depends... I do shoot on a "somewhat fouled bore." I can not say the barrel is fowled because I do shoot the rifle prior to hunting season and I then patch the barrel with 3 windex patches both sides... dry the bore. Very lightly lube the barrel with Slip 2000 and then load it for hunting season. I should also say I shoot T7, if I were shooting real BP or one of the Pyro's this would not work. Windex is a great neutralizer of T7. This year, after checking the zero on the weekend, I loaded the White on the evening of Oct 9 beginning of rifle elk season and finally shot a whitetail on Nov. 11 after elk season had closed. Patched, dried and lightly lubed the bore again loaded up the White shot that load out Nov. 20.

I hunt with a muzzle mitt on any questionable days. The gun rides in the truck in the morning on the way up and in the truck on the way back. We never really heat the truck up a lot. The biggest problem I have found is taking a really cold gun out of the cold into a very warm place... going the opposit way is not usually a problem because the gun cools slowly.

I have never had the problem you describe - but when in doubt i will shoot or pull the load out.

So I guess it each to his own... but i also have to say we do not have the high humidities other have. We would average in the 60/70% area most of the time during the hunting season.

Did an experiment a couple of years ago with a Remington - loaded it up and left it out in the weather all day - rain - snow - low temps around Christmas time - brought it in the house in the evenings.... A week later took it to the range and shot it - worked fine...

Sooo.... i donotknow

 

[Mike Vaccaro]

Raf,

You mentioned loosing POI? How, I have broken my gun down many time and have never seen a change in POI. TC Pro Hunter.





In regards to the powder after it was pushed out of the gun. I didn't, haven't and never would suggest reusing the powder in this condition. The way our final day ended I was unable to shoot it out so I left it till I got home that evening. The gun was then emptied and completely cleaned.

This post was intended to help those new to this game and to show what I see as proof of what CAN happen. I was aware of this condition long before deer season but didn't have the pic to back it up at the time.

I have no issues nor am I suprised by what I have found, just wanted to pass it along.

 

[03mossy]

3 weeks ago hunting in the snow all day i pushed out the bullet that night my 100 grains of loose t7 looked like 2 perfect 50 grain pellets. i am going to continue loading fresh every am after seeing that!

 

[Patrick White]

Cajun,
Also note how the bullet is heavily tarnished compared to the fresh bullet below it. To me this speaks volumes about powder and it's ability to eat stuff. I load on a swabbed fowled barrel and am very particular about my cleaning when done at the range etc. I have not seen any pitting or anything in my stainless Pro Hunter bore but am now convinced that more than a few days is a bad idea to leave a bore fowled.

That's the problem right there. Unless you fully clean a bore there's still powder fouling. I hunt on a clean dry bore. There's no fouling to work on the barrel. I've left loaded for 4 days (length of the longest season here) and the bore is still as clean as when I loaded it. The powder does compress into a big pellet but falls apart easily suggesting that it isn't moisture but the compression. I do remove the load if it rains because I don't want to chance the moisture. I've never had a failure to fire or a hang fire.

 

[Rolex Dr.]

funny you mentioned the bullet tarnished


i shot my doe the sat after thanksgiving

i reloaded in the tree put the gun in the case and brought it home

i left it in the cold garage until sunday eve. when i pushed the bullet out and the powerbelt was tarnished bad it sat for maybe 24 hours

i have it i will snap a pic with camera tommorow

the s/s barrel was fine i cleaned it and its spotless

HMMM i did not swab the barrel before i loaded just pushed bullet down in case i had to shoot again



JD

 

[big6x6]

Swabbed barrel or not...no way I'd leave a muzzleloader loaded for more than a couple of days and DEPEND on it to fire and then place the bullet to the point of the zero, safely.. In high humidity conditions I've actually had Triple Se7en begin to clump together on the POWDER MEASURE(I certainly didn't swab the powder measure!)! It's THAT hygroscopic! Now in low humidity areas such as the Texas plains/Arizona/NM/etc...you COULD be okay for quite a while...but why chance it?

 

[Anonymous]

Swabbed barrel or not...no way I'd leave a muzzleloader loaded for more than a couple of days and DEPEND on it to fire and then place the bullet to the point of the zero, safely.. In high humidity conditions I've actually had Triple Se7en begin to clump together on the POWDER MEASURE(I certainly didn't swab the powder measure!)! It's THAT hygroscopic! Now in low humidity areas such as the Texas plains/Arizona/NM/etc...you COULD be okay for quite a while...but why chance it?

I will agree 100% I spend to much time and money getting thing just right so why take the chance on the load failling it may never fail but hows to say.

 

[Underclocked]

I left my gun loaded 14 days and had complete confidence in the load when I went to the bench today. If I had fired the rifle during those days, I would have reloaded. :lol:

Two loads of Swiss stayed in my rifle for a total of 26 days with all kinds of weather during that time. Both loads fired instantly and accurately at the bench.

Why risk it? I did not consider it a risk.

 

[smong2000]

I loaded my fouled and alcohol swabbed Omega w/ loose T7 Nov 8 and immediately put a seal of masking tape over the barrel and a fired 25 ACP shell in the breech. I hunted in cold wet weather for 4 days then had to leave for another hunting trip and wiped down the surface but left it charged. Last Saturday (Nov 30) I hunted in 17 degree weather most of the day with it and returned home early so i could shoot it and recharge. She went bang and hit right where I expected.
I've hunted all this week in wet snow and below 25 weather and left the gun outside where it never thawed out. Just now pushed out the load and it's loose and dry.
May be just superstition, but I always seal my barrel with masking tape right after loading and keep the breech plug sealed with a fired 25 ACP shell when I deprime and so far no problems. I checked the tape at the range with 1-3 layers and no change in POI.