Sabotless Lead

[fisher1]

I have TC custom shop 45-70 Encore barrel converted to smokeless. Thinking about trying full bore lead{sabotless} for deer 100 yds max. What dia. should I be looking for .459/460 ?

 

[Saxtonyoung]

Your talking a Muzzleloader right ? If so you need to be looking at bore size not groove size. My guesstimate would be the bore closer to .450. Some like 1-2 thousands over bore for a tight fit so the bullet doesn't come off powder if muzzle was down and bumped. Since I do a lot of stand hunting I prefer bore size for easier loading and can always check to make sure bullet is on powder with ramrod if there is a concern.

 

[52Bore]

Conicals are all Ive shoot for 30+ years.
Not sure what weight you’re looking at shooting, but your 45-70 twist should be fast enough to handle any bullet.
I shoot and hunt with a 545gr HP over 52grW BH209 in my 45 fast twist (and a few other heavies). Recoil is comfortable and they blow thru every deer I’ve shot.

If your only shooting 100yds or so..

 

[sdporter]

Just keep your velocity down to BP velocities or harden up your alloy. Don’t want to lead up a barrel. I would start at .452-.453 and size down from there.

 

[fisher1]

I'm a bit confused as to these recommended diameters(453/453). On the Penn Bullets site they show 45-70 bullets @ 458/459/460. Their 45 cal pistol bullets are 451 to 454. Should I be looking at pistol bullets or 45-70 bullets. I have not slugged my bore but it is a 45-70,1-20 twist converted to smokeless. I hunt w/smokeless but have shot Blackhorn as well

 

[GM54-120]

Larger bullets need to be sized down enough to engrave slightly in the lands.

Lands on 45s will range from .450-452...Grooves are around .458-.460. You wont get a .458 down the barrel without a hammer. It needs to be just slightly larger than the lands NOT the grooves.

Starting with a lead .458 you want to reduce it in a couple steps. First a .454 Lee die then maybe it will fit in one of the adjustble dies from Hankins or Swinglock

 

[Saxtonyoung]

When shooting a cartridge rifle you generally like to have a bullet that is sized to your groove diameter or a .001 over, so if groove diameter of a 45-70 is .458 you may want a bullet that is .459.

A Muzzleloader you want a bullet that is closer to bore diameter and when fired the bullet will obtrute or expand to fill the grooves. To do this you need fairly soft lead and the bullets your looking at may be to hard for this to happen correctly.

Many guys pour there own bullets and size accordingly. I have poured 45-70 bullets that with either pure lead or a 40:1 mix and they may come from the mold at .457- .458 and then sized to .450 for a slip fit, others will size a couple thousand more for a little tighter fit.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

I shoot and hunt with a 545gr HP over 52grW BH209 in my 45 fast twist (and a few other heavies). Recoil is comfortable and they blow thru every deer I’ve shot.
View attachment 11855

Thats a good looking bullet. What mold is that from?

 

[52Bore]

Thats a good looking bullet. What mold is that from?

I made it about 10years ago for a friend.
Accurate copied it for others : 45-540W
But, I HP for them as Accurate will not.