triple 7
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Hey Worm! - You bet your sweet bippie you can... A #11mag cap will ignite T7-2f in warmer weather just fine... I use T7-3f when I am shooting a #11mag cap, because we hunt in weather that can range from freezing down to -20 - In the cold the 3f is much easier to ignite.
IMO - the best #11 mag cap is the RWS 1075+, or Dynamit Noble 1075+
Hey Worm! - You bet your sweet bippie you can... A #11mag cap will ignite T7-2f in warmer weather just fine... I use T7-3f when I am shooting a #11mag cap, because we hunt in weather that can range from freezing down to -20 - In the cold the 3f is much easier to ignite.
IMO - the best #11 mag cap is the RWS 1075+, or Dynamit Noble 1075+
snowball114
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You can change just the nipple over to musket cap which has a hotter spark.Thats what I have on my 700ML. It fires triple 7 with no problem.
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snowball114
Actually the Musket is not hotter than a #11 mag cap... It certainly is hotter than a #11 regualr cap. One advantage of the Musket cap is that it will burn slightly longer than the #11 - but a #11 mag cap is slightly hotter.
I had a site bookmarked I thought that had completed thse tests but I can not find it right now... if I do find it I will post it.
Dang, i even e-mailed CCI on this very subject and can not find that either....
Actually the Musket is not hotter than a #11 mag cap... It certainly is hotter than a #11 regualr cap. One advantage of the Musket cap is that it will burn slightly longer than the #11 - but a #11 mag cap is slightly hotter.
I had a site bookmarked I thought that had completed thse tests but I can not find it right now... if I do find it I will post it.
Dang, i even e-mailed CCI on this very subject and can not find that either....
snowball114 where did you get the musket cap nipple at?? will any nipple work??? found one on gunbroker hate to wait fore it to come in... found 2 breech plug on ebay :twisted: dont like buying off ebay ... going to buy the breech plugs and put them up 
thanks WORM WORM :shock:
thanks WORM WORM :shock:- Joined
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On page 83 of DaveEhrig's book "Muzzleloading for Deer & Turkey", he lists some information on percussion caps and primers.
#11 standard cap - 6.53 cc of gas at 3,024 degrees F when fired.
#11 magnum cap - 7.59 cc of gas at 3,717 degrees F when fired.
U.S. #2 musket cap - 14.36 cc of gas at 3,717 degrees F when fired.
#209 shotgun primer - 21.98 cc of gas at 3,024 degrees F when fired.
#200 rifle primer - 11.68 cc of gas at 3,024 degrees F when fired.
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I believe someone posted that at HuntingNet.
A musket cap is not "hotter" temperature-wise but it does produce almost twice the volume of gas at that temperature - so it does indeed contain more energy.
Notice the 209 is not as hot (temperature-wise) but again produces substantially more gases at that lower temperature.
A cap will ignite loose Triple7 reliably if you make sure the flame channel is clear. Also, if you need to swab the crud be sure to thoroughly dry the bore following any moisture introduction. Hang-fires are not that uncommon when using #11 caps with T7. Pyrodex might actually be a better choice. Swiss black powder most definitely is so far as reliability and offers very good accuracy in most rifles.
#11 standard cap - 6.53 cc of gas at 3,024 degrees F when fired.
#11 magnum cap - 7.59 cc of gas at 3,717 degrees F when fired.
U.S. #2 musket cap - 14.36 cc of gas at 3,717 degrees F when fired.
#209 shotgun primer - 21.98 cc of gas at 3,024 degrees F when fired.
#200 rifle primer - 11.68 cc of gas at 3,024 degrees F when fired.
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I believe someone posted that at HuntingNet.
A musket cap is not "hotter" temperature-wise but it does produce almost twice the volume of gas at that temperature - so it does indeed contain more energy.
Notice the 209 is not as hot (temperature-wise) but again produces substantially more gases at that lower temperature.
A cap will ignite loose Triple7 reliably if you make sure the flame channel is clear. Also, if you need to swab the crud be sure to thoroughly dry the bore following any moisture introduction. Hang-fires are not that uncommon when using #11 caps with T7. Pyrodex might actually be a better choice. Swiss black powder most definitely is so far as reliability and offers very good accuracy in most rifles.
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My experience with T7 2F and CCI#11 magnum caps in my Ruger 77/50 was that I would experience the ocassional hangfire but had zero problems with T7 3F. I wanted to shoot the 2F grade so I purchased a nipple/breech plug for musket caps and have had no further problems with the 2F Triple Seven.
Whitesmoke
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I've shot hundreds literally, of rounds using Triple Se7en powder and a #11 cap. Never had a problem. I do use a 1075 RWS + cap or a CCI magnum cap, but have also had good luck recently with the Remington caps.
As long as you have the rifle prepared well, and the bore dry when you load, it will work just fine. I actually like the #11 better then the musket caps.
As long as you have the rifle prepared well, and the bore dry when you load, it will work just fine. I actually like the #11 better then the musket caps.
snowball114
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The musket cap nipple I got at my local sport shop. I think the nipple of my old TC worked also. They only cost a few bucks. You don't need to get a new breach. The only extra you would need is a new caper and musket caps.
UC, not that I need the credit, but it was I that originally posted that info here on this site some time ago. I recommend Dave's book, especially for the beginner.
I have had no problems igniting properly stored FFg or FFFg T7 with regular CCI #11 caps in my Ruger 77/50 over the past six or seven years. It has gone off w/o a problem in as low as 10 degrees F weather. Make sure the cap is dry, the breech plug is clear and the cap is FULLY seated.
When I was testing T7 pellets I did have to move up to CCI #11 mag caps to get it to fire w/o delay.
I have had no problems igniting properly stored FFg or FFFg T7 with regular CCI #11 caps in my Ruger 77/50 over the past six or seven years. It has gone off w/o a problem in as low as 10 degrees F weather. Make sure the cap is dry, the breech plug is clear and the cap is FULLY seated.
When I was testing T7 pellets I did have to move up to CCI #11 mag caps to get it to fire w/o delay.
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nipple can also play a big part with the triple7 going off or not. I know i had to replace the factory cva nipple on a sidelock because it would not set the t7 off no matter what cap i used.
Put a hollow base spitfire nipple and no problems at all.
Put a hollow base spitfire nipple and no problems at all.
The tempture needed to ignite 777 is higher than any of the other subs except Black Horn 209. I experance slight hang fires and strung out groups until I use a Musket cap with it in the System One.
The powder that works the best with #11 caps is Black powder, after that is Pyrodex P then the others fall in line with 777 last and BH209 which is unworkable. Lee
The powder that works the best with #11 caps is Black powder, after that is Pyrodex P then the others fall in line with 777 last and BH209 which is unworkable. Lee
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Lee & Others
All I can do is to relay to you all that we have hunted with both musket and #11mag caps... 2 years ago when we were hunting in sub-zero temps all day + few feet of snow - shooting a Renegade & a Hawkin - at the end of the day while we were still on the hill coming out we tried to shoot the loads, Several Musket caps would not start the T7-2f -> back at the truck both of us switched over to a #11 nipple - actually I did first - installed a RWS 1075+ and the gun fired immediately - Larry then did the same with his Hawkin and same results....
So for us in the worst conditions the #11 mag worked best.... Although now we have switched to 3f and there really is no problem with that powers - it is so fine it drops right out under the nipple - which is not always the case with 2f..
Another fact that I might add is that #11's fit the nipple so much tigher than musket caps and with that do afford a little more protect from the elements... Musket caps I have to squeeze to keep them on...
All I can do is to relay to you all that we have hunted with both musket and #11mag caps... 2 years ago when we were hunting in sub-zero temps all day + few feet of snow - shooting a Renegade & a Hawkin - at the end of the day while we were still on the hill coming out we tried to shoot the loads, Several Musket caps would not start the T7-2f -> back at the truck both of us switched over to a #11 nipple - actually I did first - installed a RWS 1075+ and the gun fired immediately - Larry then did the same with his Hawkin and same results....
So for us in the worst conditions the #11 mag worked best.... Although now we have switched to 3f and there really is no problem with that powers - it is so fine it drops right out under the nipple - which is not always the case with 2f..
Another fact that I might add is that #11's fit the nipple so much tigher than musket caps and with that do afford a little more protect from the elements... Musket caps I have to squeeze to keep them on...
Well, you always have had better results with 777 than any one else.
I can't even explain why some of us get crud ring so bad and some don't get it at all. I guess the question is irrevelant for me any how; I sold all the 777 I had for $8 a can now I shoot BH209 in the inlines and Pyrodex in the Hawkins,renagade and pistols. What all ways scared me was the idea that I would get that big buck with 12 points I been chasing in front of me then have a hang or miss fire. Lee
I can't even explain why some of us get crud ring so bad and some don't get it at all. I guess the question is irrevelant for me any how; I sold all the 777 I had for $8 a can now I shoot BH209 in the inlines and Pyrodex in the Hawkins,renagade and pistols. What all ways scared me was the idea that I would get that big buck with 12 points I been chasing in front of me then have a hang or miss fire. Lee
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Lee 9
It is a curse not knowing WHY? That the part I want to know.. Why can I shoot all morning and maybe use 2-3 windex patches - using the same patch over and over never having it get "black" dirty... I get the first patch dirtier cleaning the fouling from shooting 3 or four caps to clean the BP than i ever do swabbing after a shot. That my next experiment - I am going to shoot T7 only and patch as normal after each shot but use the same patch til it drys out - then share a pic of that - after the iniatial shot i do not use a drying patch so that will not help...
I just do not know.... but there are others expriencing the same thing so I is just not me... i don't think Dave has a crud problem either in all of his ML's...
It is a curse not knowing WHY? That the part I want to know.. Why can I shoot all morning and maybe use 2-3 windex patches - using the same patch over and over never having it get "black" dirty... I get the first patch dirtier cleaning the fouling from shooting 3 or four caps to clean the BP than i ever do swabbing after a shot. That my next experiment - I am going to shoot T7 only and patch as normal after each shot but use the same patch til it drys out - then share a pic of that - after the iniatial shot i do not use a drying patch so that will not help...
I just do not know.... but there are others expriencing the same thing so I is just not me... i don't think Dave has a crud problem either in all of his ML's...
A
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Lee 9 said:
Lee,,just trying to be objective here......so bear with me.
1) I think alot of guys had excellent results with 777 and NO crud rings
2) BH209 hasn't proved itself in cold weather conditions,,,,,YET,,and I'm pretty confident that may change. Time will tell.
3) If I was THAT paranoid,,,,I'd use the old reliable pure black powder,,,like ,,,,ummmm,,Goex or Swiss.
What would scare ME is,,,,,using a new powder that hasn't been out long enough to say otherwise.
Batchief909
Myself and Mike are old friends we have both been around the mountain a few times and we have discuss this before. The possabilities are weather or perhaps I should say climate and what oils ect were used in the barrel or maybe a combination of these things. Any how don't get the wrong idea I wish we lived close enough together to work on a few things together.
As far as shooting BH in the cold I put one of my rifles in the freezer for a few day and it shot fine, which considering I live in AR and it hardly ever gets below freezeing should be good enough. Lee
Myself and Mike are old friends we have both been around the mountain a few times and we have discuss this before. The possabilities are weather or perhaps I should say climate and what oils ect were used in the barrel or maybe a combination of these things. Any how don't get the wrong idea I wish we lived close enough together to work on a few things together.
As far as shooting BH in the cold I put one of my rifles in the freezer for a few day and it shot fine, which considering I live in AR and it hardly ever gets below freezeing should be good enough. Lee
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Waell Bat, u jest aint gawt yer akt tagether lak sum duz. :wink:
Reese, sorry - didn't mean to relocate you... and I would have credited you if I had recalled. Jest goze ta sho ya how guud muh memory iz.
And Mike... I have one rifle that DOES NOT develop a crud ring and that is my G2 (which I shot yesterday by the way :wink: ). My barrels all get the same treatment so the answer must lay in how you hold the rifle. :wink:
Reese, sorry - didn't mean to relocate you... and I would have credited you if I had recalled. Jest goze ta sho ya how guud muh memory iz.
And Mike... I have one rifle that DOES NOT develop a crud ring and that is my G2 (which I shot yesterday by the way :wink: ). My barrels all get the same treatment so the answer must lay in how you hold the rifle. :wink:
A
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Lee 9 said:
Sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt your conversation.
UC,,,,,ah'll try harder..... :lol: :lol:
