White M97 Test Report from Browning

[edmehlig]

I thought you DWBs would like this little Trivia on White ML's. At one time Doc was attempting to sell White to Browning. Browning put the White M97 through a torcher test. It passed with flying colors. Unfortunately, at the very last moment when Doc went to sign the contract, Browning pulled out at the last minute due to some internal issues. I won't say why, let's just say there were some internal issues and leave it at that.

 

[ElDiablo]

Wow - thanks for sharing this! Talk about torture tests (double loads, duplex loads, big smokeless loads, double charges, short started bullets, ramrod on top of a 600 gr bullet…). Other than a few issues with split stocks, the test rifles passed nearly every test! Everyone with a White ought to read this!

 

[trickyricky]

Wow - thanks for sharing this! Talk about torture tests (double loads, duplex loads, big smokeless loads, double charges, short started bullets, ramrod on top of a 600 gr bullet…). Other than a few issues with split stocks, the test rifles passed nearly every test! Everyone with a White ought to read this!

Am I the only one picturing a guy in a lab coat touching off a 600 grainer with a double charge.....? Ouch.....

 

[edmehlig]

Rick, I’m sure you are right and goes to show how well built White ML’s are.

 

[steve egan]

I thought you DWBs would like this little Trivia on White ML's. At one time Doc was attempting to sell White to Browning. Browning put the White M97 through a torcher test. It passed with flying colors. Unfortunately, at the very last moment when Doc went to sign the contract, Browning pulled out at the last minute due to some internal issues. I won't say why, let's just say there were some internal issues and leave it at that.

edmehlig thank you for this report!!!
This is very interesting reading.

Steve

 

[toytruck]

Now everybody is gonna want a White rifle...

Great post Ed!!

 

[michiganmuzzy]

Am I the only one picturing a guy in a lab coat touching off a 600 grainer with a double charge.....? Ouch.....

Yessir, im thinking about him pulling trigger on 90gr of 5774 under that 600! Holycrap! I would love to see that video.

 

[Redclub]

Very interesting Read.

 

[Hatchet Jack]

Nothing built tougher than a White ML.
My Bison and M98 are built like a brick schitt house. Indestructible I tell ya!

 

[phalanx]

Excellent read! Thanks for sharing i!t

 

[Hatchet Jack]

Browning pulled out at the last minute due to some internal issues. I won't say why, let's just say there were some internal issues and leave it at that.

Jeesh Ed! Now you went and left us all in suspenders.

 

[snapbang]

Im thinking the person who made the decision not to take White into the Browning line was probably later hired at Anheuser Busch and headed their advertising.

 

[steve egan]

snapping I think you are absolutely right!!
OR as Forrest Gump's mother said:
Stupid is as Stupid does!

 

[noordinaryjoe]

Did White's use standard, commercially available barrel steels? I'm not running out to try double-duplex loads in my TC, but I would be comforted to know that other modern muzzleloaders with modern steel have a pretty huge safety margin.

 

[trickyricky]

Wilson and Criterion were some of the barrels used.

 

[Rodeo]

Good read thanks

 

[Batchief909]

Copied and pasted from one of Underclocked's earlier posts:

Primarily there are two types of White actions... the side cocking plunger action and the pull-cock plunger action. Over the years there have some variations of each action type and the bedding method used as well as changes in barrel producers.

The side-cocking models include the G-series, the Lightning (with right side cocking), the 97 Whitetail Hunter, and the Ultra Mag. Within those models you might find from 22 to 26 inch barrels.

The pull-cock models would include the Super91 and the Model 98 Elite Hunter. Some variations of the Super91 have been available with special models featuring full-length stocks or carbon fiber wrapped barrels. The action itself evolved over the years with changes primarily in type of safety and bolt release. The last of the 91s were the basis for the 98 - which is essentially a 91 action with a straight-tapered barrel, extra recoil lug, and a less elegant stock design. Barrel vendors also varied over the years but most Whites would be found to have either a Wilson or Clerke barrel.

My personal favorite is a 97 Ultra Mag in .504 with a Clerke barrel. Extremely accurate with a wide variety of loads.

 

[GregK]

I thought you DWBs would like this little Trivia on White ML's. At one time Doc was attempting to sell White to Browning. Browning put the White M97 through a torcher test. It passed with flying colors. Unfortunately, at the very last moment when Doc went to sign the contract, Browning pulled out at the last minute due to some internal issues. I won't say why, let's just say there were some internal issues and leave it at that.

You sent me this info & more a number of years ago with the agreement that it stayed between us. I have & will continue to honor that agreement, but it’s good to see some of this getting out there now. Every time I’ve seen discussions on the use of BH209 in these guns I’ve always snickered recalling what it took Browning to reach a catastrophic failure of a White rifle. Amazing. Thanks for sharing Ed.

Greg

 

[fishhawk2700]

You sent me this info & more a number of years ago with the agreement that it stayed between us. I have & will continue to honor that agreement, but it’s good to see some of this getting out there now. Every time I’ve seen discussions on the use of BH209 in these guns I’ve always snickered recalling what it took Browning to reach a catastrophic failure of a White rifle. Amazing. Thanks for sharing Ed.

Greg

I can't remember anyone saying that the Whites couldn't handle BH. The only thing I remember is that long term use of BH is detrimental to the health of your White rifle, IMO. I wouldn't use BH in any rifle that doesn't have a well-sealed ignition.

 

[edmehlig]

This is an email I received from Doc. I personally have not tried nor do I think I will. But this is what he said on the matter.

Doc can you shoot BH209 with a M97 or M98 safely? Heard some guys pouring about 4-5 gr of FFF powder befor 100 gr of BH209. Don’t know if that is a safe load. Any suggestions with my 451 with say 350gr conicals?
Sent from my iPhone

ED- I started advocating a blackpowder igniter under BH209 3-4 yearsago. It enhances velocity , cuts down on pressure and velocity variation and is more accurate .Some shooters have caught on, you are seeing th result. I use it in my Super 91 with #11 cap , 451 cal, 5 gr BP, 70 gr BH209 and 360 gr saboted or slip fit bullet. 1770 fps, 3" high at 100, 9" low at 200, 2" groups at 200 DOC. Kills whitetail bucks lik a hammer