Winchester 209 Primer Length

[BuckDoeHunter]

I bought a couple of 100 ct boxes and sorted through them, measuring each one for length. I was very surprised to find at least 20 that measured .307, previously, the longest I found were .304. Anyone else find any that long? The shortest measured .296, not too many, but quite a spread.

I probably don't have to point out the long one

 

[Travis299]

This is another advantage of using the rubber O-Ring in the primer pocket where you don't have to worry about different primer lengths.

 

[LarryBud]

That has not been my experience. Generally, they run at .300 to .301.

 

[deerlessbob]

Never measured any, but have found I need to use the primer removal tool to remove a big percentage of them. Then, occasionally, one will just fall out when I open my Optima.

 

[HC]

The last Thousand I bought ( this year), ranged from 0.296 to 0.301.

 

[Matthew323]

Mr. Tom mentioned in one of his posts that he measures his Winchester 209 primers for length (?), and discards the ones that are too short/too long (friend uses for loading shotshells).

This was in reference to his Optima V2 pistol.

Is anyone else doing this?

 

[ported45]

I would suspect that most all of that variation is in the rim flange not being as perpendicular to the body as the others and that is where you get your crush fit anyway.

At least in the OP that is what it appears to be to me.

 

[MrTom]

Never measured any, but have found I need to use the primer removal tool to remove a big percentage of them. Then, occasionally, one will just fall out when I open my Optima.

In all of my CVA inlines I need a tool for fired primer extraction extremely rare using W209 Winchester blue box primers. All of these guns use plugs with vent liners. Prior to the vent liner conversion and using granular T7 in one of these guns stuck primers was a frequent occasion. An O ring took care of the issue, but then I determined that the flame hole in the plug was larger than it should be. I got three new plugs and converted one to try BH209 nine and right away it shot much cleaner so I converted the other two and shot them to "proof" them and they all shot clean with primers simply falling out after firing.

One thing I think can make finding a primer that seals well in the post 2010 CVA guns is the plugs need to be cranked into the barrels to "seat" the plug to the barrel for a positive seal when they are new using the tool that comes with the plugs. New guns are supposed to be factory seated. Depending on how hard the plug has been seated by anyone can affect the primer length needed for a positive seal to shoot clean. No two plugs are the same and no two people seating the plugs will seat then the same.

Locally I had Federal, Winchester and CCI as primer options. Federals were the hardest to get to seal even with an O-ring. CCI's were the next hardest to get to shoot clean. Winchesters in the blue box shot clean almost universally, hence that's what I use and have found them to be the most consistent for ignition and cleanest shooting and fired primer removal. As Bruce has mentioned, I measure my new primer stock and simply set any that are shorter than .299" aside for a buddy who trap shoots to use. I buy the primers by the 1000 and generally measure up three boxes at a time and end up with about 30% as give-aways. This makes the shooting a tad bit more expensive but I have the uniformity I like at this end of the whole equation. And my guns are clean in the breech after shooting.

I also agree with Ported that primers are not really too uniform and consistent at the flange and is one reason I use the longest of them in any given box. I get the needed "crush" using them. After firing the primers pluck out with a flick of a finger or drop out when the barrel is raised.

 

[ronlaughlin]

Mr. Tom mentioned in one of his posts that he measures his Winchester 209 primers for length (?), and discards the ones that are too short/too long (friend uses for loading shotshells).

This was in reference to his Optima V2 pistol.

Is anyone else doing this?

For the 50 caliber Knight, the W209 primers are measured. Primers 0.302" or longer are then used for shooting in this rifle. This rifle has a Lehigh breech plug. Only the longer W209 primers are used in this rifle.

The 45 caliber Knight has a Bestill custom breech plug. For it, one can grab any CCI, or Federal primer. Don't use W209 primers in this rifle, because of the chance of grabbing a long primer.

One can grab any CCI, or Federal primer when shooting any of the Omega rifle. All the Omega rifles use the same Bestill custom breech plug. W209 primers are never used in the Omega rifle, when using the Bestill breech plug. If one is using a standard Omega breech plug, one can use W209 primer 0.302" or longer





It seems like the length of W209 primer varies with the lot #. Old, old lots, seem to have more of the long primers than newer lots. The fact that W209 primers seem to be shorter lately, spurred the purchase of the Bestill custom Omega breech plug.

 

[GM54-120]

Look for Nobel (NSI) 686 209 primers. They are as long as a Win209 but larger OD. They fit the CVA plugs better but wont fit many USA made rifles.

They are usually cheaper than any USA made primer and about as hot as a Win209. They also sell a "mag" (209/688) but ive not been able to find those
https://www.ballisticproducts.com/NobelSport-Primers-209-Shotshell-1000_box/productinfo/N209/

 

[ported45]

Frankly I am surprised that some of you that are good with machining have not come up with a primer swager so that even long Winchester 209s could be swaged down a few thousandths. Only issue I could see would be how to remove the primer from the swager as the flange is malleable enough it might bend back up again when removing. Pressing back out from the other side would require a hole large enough not to damage the primer's flash hole, but enough meat left to get your desired crush length. Might even be made to fit a standard reloading press so that you could adjust the swager in/out to get your preferred primer length to exactly match your rifle/plug combo.

My current rifle shoots best so far with the Winchester 209s, so I just put the primers in the plug when it is unloaded and close it a few times to set my crush length on about 25 or so primers at a time. Extract them with a 209 primer tool and they are ready to go to the range or hunting and the action closes easily and primer pocket stays clean. Just a bit of a pain since the plug was originally headspaced for the Federals.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

Frankly I am surprised that some of you that are good with machining have not come up with a primer swager so that even long Winchester 209s could be swaged down a few thousandths. Only issue I could see would be how to remove the primer from the swager as the flange is malleable enough it might bend back up again when removing. Pressing back out from the other side would require a hole large enough not to damage the primer's flash hole, but enough meat left to get your desired crush length. Might even be made to fit a standard reloading press so that you could adjust the swager in/out to get your preferred primer length to exactly match your rifle/plug combo.

Thats a great idea. I believe i can make a swager out of an old cva breech plug to use in an arbor press.

 

[ronlaughlin]

Frankly I am surprised that some of you that are good with machining have not come up with a primer swager so that even long Winchester 209s could be swaged down a few thousandths................

But...............the biggest issue with primers is they are most all too short.

 

[BuckDoeHunter]

Thats a great idea. I believe i can make a swager out of an old cva breech plug to use in an arbor press.

I just sized down a Win 209 primer from .301 to .295 using an old traditions 209 thunderdome plug and a small c-clamp. Hearing and eye protection were worn just in case. A tad time consuming, 1/4 of a turn, then measure, then another 1/4 turn, measure...but it did work. I'll tinker with it more, I may be able to use my RockChucker press with a threaded bushing for the plug and a modified sizing die stem. I have two muzzleloaders that like shorter primers and if Winchester primers keep coming in so long, that kind of tool will come in handy.

 

[ronlaughlin]

STS primers are 0.294"

 

[GM54-120]

Fiochi are also quite short and larger OD. They might fit Euro made plugs better also if you need a short primer.

 

[sdporter]

I would suspect that most all of that variation is in the rim flange not being as perpendicular to the body as the others and that is where you get your crush fit anyway.

At least in the OP that is what it appears to be to me.

This is a stamped part so the dimension is gonna be all over the place. If it were machined, the dimensions would be a lot more consistent .

 

[ported45]

But...............the biggest issue with primers is they are most all too short.

Not if your plug was headspaced for a Federal and you found out that it shoots great with Winchesters...

If someone were to make a primer swager ("uniformer"), then plugs could be headspaced for the smaller primers and you could use whatever primer you wanted to after "uniforming" them.

 

[ported45]

This is a stamped part so the dimension is gonna be all over the place. If it were machined, the dimensions would be a lot more consistent .

Thus the need for the swager in the first place.