45-70 conversion Extractor

[phalanx]

I just got my barrel with the H.I.S. ignition back from Jeff Hankins and put the rifle back together tonight. Dummy me decided to put one of the modules into the plug for a fit check and was unable to get it to come out until I pulled the gun apart again and tapped the barrel on the floor and the module came right out. I know one should hold the extractor down but that didn't help. I am concerned that once fired the module will swell and be even harder to get out. Does anyone have any tricks on how best to pop these modules out? Should i cut off the extractor? Thanks for your advice!

John

 

[michiganmuzzy]

I tried a few times to shoot with out the extractor. It came down to having to pry gently from two sides at the same time. Even then it didn't always come straight out and would get jammed. I put the extractor back in with the spring but left out the roll pin so i can take the extractor out easily. I have lost one spring when i wasn't careful pulling it. I got a few extras from CVA. Someone else suggested filing down the bottom of the extractor to the point that the plug and a socket will get past it with out having to remove it.

 

[LBAhunter]

I don't have problems with my extractor. It's in a plastic bag in the box my Scout came in.....lol....

 

[Ninering62]

I don't have problems with my extractor. It's in a plastic bag in the box my Scout came in.....lol....

That was my suggestion to him as well.

 

[phalanx]

Thanks Gents (used loosely!). Looks like, I'll be knocking out the pin and finding a plastic bag for it to sit in!

 

[phalanx]

Pin, extractor and spring (dropped but found) are now sitting inna plastic bag and labeled. Thanks again!

Now in the process of measuring min loads using a sabot with N110, N120, 4227 and N130. Already know the 110 min I wanted to use will not work.

 

[sqezer]

I have found it's best to not file down the extractor,if you do do you'll run into the primer module dropping between the barrel and extractor.

 

[bronko220002]

I have zero problems with my extractor. In fact I find it very useful. My modules come out without any difficulty and I find that if I open the action fairly briskly the extractor actually throws the module out.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

The only thing issue i have/had is taking out the breech plug is not possible with the extractor in, and when i first got it i would not always set module in right and it would tip and jam the the action while closing. It only took a little practice and tipping the barrel down a bit, so now i have no problems.

 

[LBAhunter]

Pin, extractor and spring (dropped but found) are now sitting inna plastic bag and labeled. Thanks again!

Now in the process of measuring min loads using a sabot with N110, N120, 4227 and N130. Already know the 110 min I wanted to use will not work.

What plug did you have installed?

 

[bronko220002]

The only thing issue i have/had is taking out the breech plug is not possible with the extractor in, and when i first got it i would not always set module in right and it would tip and jam the the action while closing. It only took a little practice and tipping the barrel down a bit, so now i have no problems.

You're correct in that the extractor does get in the way when removing and, worse, when installing the BP. I found that a small screwdriver under the extractor holds it out of the way just enough to get the BP and socket past it without bending or damaging it.

 

[phalanx]

LBAhunter, i had the H.I.S. installed so no single loads of N110. Jeff doesn't have any of the DI material he needs. I'll likely go with a DI next time. Minimum load of N120 I feel comfortable using with just the sabot is 55 grains after measuring a few times tonight. I've read 58 to 60 grains is a good spot on these scouts so I'm okay with it so far. Measured out a few loads in the 55 to 60 grain range to check velocity and of course accuracy. Hoping to shoot the weekend of the 29th.

Discovered my 45-70 shell holder doesn't fit my handloader so had to order one tonight.

John

 

[phalanx]

As indicated, I did remove the extractor today. It was not helpful in extracting the primer modules and just generally in the way. My primer modules are so damn tight they will not come out unless I break down the gun and tap the bottom of the barrel on the floor, then the module pops right out. This will obviously not work in the field or when at the range so I am going to have to figure something out that I can use to pull them out. I read on another board someone else had the same issue but never saw a resolution.

Think I'll try what MM did, put the extractor in but leave the pin out, it's just that the extractor does not really seem to be doing anything. It doesn't engage the module at all.

I can understand why LBAhunter removed his as he has the Direct Ignition set up and doesn't use the 45-70 primer adapter.


So, back to basics, Should the extractor be lifting out the primer module as if it was a 45-70 case? When compared to a 45-70 shell they are the msame diameter but didn't check thickness. It seems to me the extractor "should" treat the module as if it was a shell case.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

As indicated, I did remove the extractor today. It was not helpful in extracting the primer modules and just generally in the way. My primer modules are so damn tight they will not come out unless I break down the gun and tap the bottom of the barrel on the floor, then the module pops right out. This will obviously not work in the field or when at the range so I am going to have to figure something out that I can use to pull them out. I read on another board someone else had the same issue but never saw a resolution.

Think I'll try what MM did, put the extractor in but leave the pin out, it's just that the extractor does not really seem to be doing anything. It doesn't engage the module at all.

I can understand why LBAhunter removed his as he has the Direct Ignition set up and doesn't use the 45-70 primer adapter.


So, back to basics, Should the extractor be lifting out the primer module as if it was a 45-70 case? When compared to a 45-70 shell they are the msame diameter but didn't check thickness. It seems to me the extractor "should" treat the module as if it was a shell case.

Yes it definitely should kick the module out the same as a cartridge. Without the spring it doesn't work tho. Are you certain you got the spring back into its pocket?

 

[Ninering62]

Yes it definitely should kick the module out the same as a cartridge. Without the spring it doesn't work tho. Are you certain you got the spring back into its pocket?

The only Scout conversion I’ve handled, the extractor made getting the BP in & out very difficult & time consuming. Royal PITA!
Also, it would only lift up the end of the module just enough for it to push past the module leaving it in place. It will be getting removed when the young man brings it here again. I’m going to enjoy removing that thing.

 

[phalanx]

Thank you all for your assistance! I played with it this morning before my hearing appt using one of my 45-70 shells with the breechplug out. Discovered the extractor wasn't raising uo enough to even push out the shell which had no resistance. I ended up changing the spring with a pen spring (read that trick on Hanks Board) and adjusting its length to give the right amount of tension. Glued the spring in with a touch of Gorilla gluel, left the pin out and now everything works great!

Looking forward to load development now!

 

[michiganmuzzy]

Glued the spring in with a touch of Gorilla gluel

Brilliant. I will be doing that to mine.

 

[LBAhunter]

As indicated, I did remove the extractor today. It was not helpful in extracting the primer modules and just generally in the way. My primer modules are so damn tight they will not come out unless I break down the gun and tap the bottom of the barrel on the floor, then the module pops right out. This will obviously not work in the field or when at the range so I am going to have to figure something out that I can use to pull them out. I read on another board someone else had the same issue but never saw a resolution.

Think I'll try what MM did, put the extractor in but leave the pin out, it's just that the extractor does not really seem to be doing anything. It doesn't engage the module at all.

I can understand why LBAhunter removed his as he has the Direct Ignition set up and doesn't use the 45-70 primer adapter.


So, back to basics, Should the extractor be lifting out the primer module as if it was a 45-70 case? When compared to a 45-70 shell they are the msame diameter but didn't check thickness. It seems to me the extractor "should" treat the module as if it was a shell case.

Yep, I use DI.

Thank you all for your assistance! I played with it this morning before my hearing appt using one of my 45-70 shells with the breechplug out. Discovered the extractor wasn't raising uo enough to even push out the shell which had no resistance. I ended up changing the spring with a pen spring (read that trick on Hanks Board) and adjusting its length to give the right amount of tension. Glued the spring in with a touch of Gorilla gluel, left the pin out and now everything works great!

Looking forward to load development now!

Good luck!!

 

[LBAhunter]

Pin, extractor and spring (dropped but found) are now sitting inna plastic bag and labeled. Thanks again!

Now in the process of measuring min loads using a sabot with N110, N120, 4227 and N130. Already know the 110 min I wanted to use will not work.

LBAhunter, i had the H.I.S. installed so no single loads of N110. Jeff doesn't have any of the DI material he needs. I'll likely go with a DI next time. Minimum load of N120 I feel comfortable using with just the sabot is 55 grains after measuring a few times tonight. I've read 58 to 60 grains is a good spot on these scouts so I'm okay with it so far. Measured out a few loads in the 55 to 60 grain range to check velocity and of course accuracy. Hoping to shoot the weekend of the 29th.

Discovered my 45-70 shell holder doesn't fit my handloader so had to order one tonight.

John

If it were me, I would start with Fury 40 cal 225gr I n a HLBS with a Eastern Maine wool wad. I would get the minimum load for each to fill chamber and try all 3 powders, N120, N130, 4227 and work them up to see which is best.

 

[phalanx]

Agree with your approach LBA, starting with the N120 but only have Barnes 195 and SST 200's on hand. I've ordered some 225's but they may not get here before the 28th when I'll be headed down to my property to put out some turkey blinds and do some shooting.

For starters I measured out 5 loads of the N120 at 55 grains (to ensure I get on paper) and then 3 loads each at 56-59 grains and then another 5 at 60. Read that 60 grs of the N120 usually does well in these Scouts. Plan on using the chronograph also.

John