Drop Tubes (Who uses them?)

[Idaholewis]

I have been meaning to start a thread on the use of a powder drop tube, so here goes. Back when i started putting together the ‘Business Rifle’ (32” 1:18 twist .451 bore Green Mountain Drop In Barrel) I was looking for every possible accuracy advantage i could find, A Powder Drop Tube kept popping up from the Mid to Long Range guys. I was gonna buy a brass Drop tube from BACO but i decided to make my own using an Aluminum Shaft (Mine is actually from the Aluminum Ramrod that came with the barrel) The older full length Aluminum Easton archery arrow shafts are a full 34” long and are ideal for a 32” barrel (Today’s Aluminum shafts are 30-32” long) these can easily be cut down to any length desired.

I am gonna be lazy here and copy a post from 451 Pete, This describes a Powder Drop tube as good as i can type it, and is exactly why i chose to make, and use one.

The drop tube can do several things in loading a muzzle loader. It can provide a bit of compaction to your load ( the same as is done by many shooters when loading black powder in cartridge rifles ). It can keep the powder from hanging up on and in the rifling ( say if the bore is still just a bit damp after wiping out ), and it can give you a more consistant powder charge from shot to shot by allowing the fines in the powder to suspend a bit, but only if the powder is trickled and not just dumped into the drop tube.

At Friendship you will see the drop tube used by almost all of the bullet shooting rifle shooters at the mid and long range events. The large majority of round ball shooters, at closer yardages, don't bother.

Personally, I use a drop tube when loading any paper patched bullet in a muzzle loading rifle as any powder that gets caught up in the rifling could jam up the bullet and possibly damage the patch. A torn patch means a bad or wasted shot. Not something I want in the middle of a good shot string or in a match. I also clean between shots with one damp and one dry but have found just enough moisture in the bore to warrent the use of the drop tube.

Hope this helps ..... Pete

 

[Idaholewis]

For those that might feel it takes a lot longer to load? In all honesty it takes VERY little more effort to use my drop tube than a Muzzle funnel, maybe 30 seconds more? I have started using my Drop tube in EVERY rifle i own, if I can’t take the extra 30 seconds it requires to load my rifle, i am to busy that day and i shouldn’t be out there, the way i see it anyway.

I think it boils down to how serious you take accuracy? Me personally, i want EVERY advantage i can possibly get, i take out EVERY variable i possibly can, like Weighing my charges in Weight Grains on a reliable scale and putting my pre weighed charges in small vials, The Drop Tube simply ads to my program, by taking out another variable. When i pour my charge in my drop tube it free falls directly to, and in the Powder chamber where it belongs! When you think about it, After Swabbing your bore Between shots there will ALWAYS be a certain amount of fouling left in the Grooves, This fouling will no doubt collect moisture, then you pour your powder charge in using a little Muzzle funnel, What do you think happens as that BONE dry powder is falling down the bore? A certain amount of it ‘Clings’ to the bore walls, sure your tight fitting OP Wad pushes it on down to rest of the charge, But wouldn’t it be contaminated at that point? It just makes good sense to me to use one

The ‘Business Rifle’ and my Home made Powder Drop Tube

 

[themoose]

Lewis, There is not doubt logic in your thinking, but as you admit your approach is different than a lot of shooters. You are a lot like a much younger version of me...you want to eliminate or minimize all the variables in your rifles and load as you can so the equipment is never at question...if you get it to shoot to your requirements misses all come down to shooter error. I used drop tubes with success in loading for 45-70 for long range shooting...it flat out works....I have done it some with bench shooting ml's but never tested it to see how much difference it would make....again, I can't argue with your logic for how it should help.. as I have told you(IIRC) I have two real hobbies; hunting and getting ready for hunting...as soon as season ends I am out to the local range working on guns/loads for next year.... that is where I do not see me using a drop tube while hunting...think it would have minimal benefit...I could load the initial load at the truck with a droptube, but I won't carry one in the field for a followup shot if needed.

Here is something that may help without using the tube...in trying to master my "flinchlock" I came upon a subject that caught my attention...very basic, but something I never thought about in 40+ years of shooting black powder... the cleaning jag/patch fit to the bore... the author's point was that if the fit is too tight you actually push a lot of the wet fouling into the breech area and proceed to put your next load of clean dry powder on top of that fouling... his theory, and this makes sense to my old brain, is that you should use an undersize jag so the wet patch slides down the bore easily, but when removed it wipes the lands and grooves clean on the upstroke.... follow that by dry patches....My thinking is that this method would go more toward field/hunting accuracy and be easier than using a drop tube....

I know it was long winded... and thanks for those who read the whole thing.. I plan on trying this method and checking how it works on my inlines and flinter with easily pulled breech plugs...

Kindest regards,

TheMoose

 

[Idaholewis]

themoose, I fully agree on a Drop tube NOT being a hunting rig! Not even needed on the first loading of a hunt as your bore is not fouled, and it should be BONE dry that first loading. So absolutely no benefit in a hunting situation. I am strictly talking Bench Rest/Target shooting for the Ultimate in Accuracy. After a fouled bore i see the Drop tube becoming a valuable asset to consistency in getting your powder to the Breech/Powder Chamber BONE DRY. I enjoy using mine, and feel it gives me another edge.

 

[Magnum]

Idaholewis, I like the thread. How does static effect the drop Tube? I know my plastic pre measure tubes are a problem and I’ve read about some using dryer sheets.

Themoose, I know exactly what your talking about with a firm patch pushing crud down the bore. I often thought about a bore specific mechanical jag that would expand a few thousands on the upstroke that would tighten up the patch and pull the crud out. What do you think?

 

[Idaholewis]

Idaholewis, I like the thread. How does static effect the drop Tube? I know my plastic pre measure tubes are a problem and I’ve read about some using dryer sheets.

I often thought about a bore specific mechanical jag that would expand a few thousands on the upstroke that would tighten up the patch and pull the crud out. What do you think?

Magnum, The Aluminum tube has not shown any sign of static ‘cling’ since i started using it, back when i made it i used a brand new .22 Cal bore snake with the bristles removed (for air rifle cleaning) the end of the bore snake has a small loop made in to it, i put a new dryer sheet through that loop and pulled it through my drop tube a few times. I pulled the dryer sheet through without ever trying it first, dryer sheets DEFINITELY stop static ‘Cling’ i have used the Dryer sheet method in powder measures for Centerfire and it worked like a charm. I to had issues with my pre weighed powder charges in my little plastic vials at first when they were brand new, my fix for that was to fill each tube about 1/4 full and i shook them vigorously to coat the inside with powder residue, i have not had a granule stick/cling since. I never clean/wipe them out, just let them discolor naturally from the powder. You could twist a dryer sheet around inside them as well. Or rub some dry Graphite around inside them.

The Mechanical Jag is an AWESOME idea!! Simple fact is when Swabbing between shots You are gonna push fouling down the bore with A tight fitting caliber specific jag, no way around it! One that would go down easily to the Breech and then Expand on the exit would be the Kitty’s Meow!! A thin diameter piece of threaded rod inside a hollow tube Cleaning Rod with a rubber button type deal on the end and small flat washer, (like a boat drain plug) when you bottomed out at the breech end, you had a T type handle type thing at the end that you could turn, as you slightly turned the handle it would Swell the Rubber up therefore tightening the Damp patch, then pull it out, dragging the fouling out, instead of pushing it in. Something like that?

 

[themoose]

the mechanical jag sounds like an engineering project.... the fellow I read about felt that a smaller loose fitting jag would go down without pushing all the crud the chamber of the breech and when pulled back would cause the patch material to wrinkle or bunch up enough to bring the crud out on the upward pull...

 

[Idaholewis]

I think it would be easy to come up with, Just imagine this same plug setup (minus the wing nut) on the end of a Hollow Rangerod, the piece of threaded rod all the way through the Hollow Rod, a little T Handle type deal that you could tighten, as you tighten it would Swell the Rubber up inside the bore as tight as you would want it

Top of a Willie boat plug

Bottom of the plug

 

[Magnum]

Yes maybe the rubber but I was thinking a small conical wedge inside loose rings of sort that when pulled back would force the rings outward? Two or three fixed ring barbs with three expanders above that, maybe spring loaded. I’m sure it could be done but I’m so busy with other projects it would take a clear head to come up with an economical system. Could even use a rod inside of a tube,two piece rod? A squeeze “T” handle? I’m not a machinist but I know there’s a lot of brilliant minds on here. I live on this sort of stuff.
Magnum

 

[Magnum]

Idaholewis, I’m sorry for getting your thread off topic. I guess I should have started a new thread with my idea.
Magnum

 

[long shot]

I have used a drop tube since starting long range back in 01, but also use about a 4 incher now when i load for hunting. Hunting now days is at what most on here call long range. Usually 2 to 300 yds. in open field It leaves plenty of time to reload o a miss.

 

[Idaholewis]

Idaholewis, I’m sorry for getting your thread off topic. I guess I should have started a new thread with my idea.
Magnum

No not at all!! It goes along with the reason we use a Drop tube!

 

[Idaholewis]

I have used a drop tube since starting long range back in 01, but also use about a 4 incher now when i load for hunting. Hunting now days is at what most on here call long range. Usually 2 to 300 yds. in open field It leaves plenty of time to reload o a miss.

45cal, I was told by a few VERY reputable sources that ALL of the serious long range guys use them in Muzzleloader events, A powder drop tube makes REALLY good sense, they are simple to make, and they only take a few extra seconds to use. To me it’s a no brainer to use one, i will continue doing so!

To the backyard guy’s shooting off hand, and happy to hit a Hay-bale at ANY distance, no need to bother with a Drop Tube, keep doing what you are doing! :lol: But to us guys that want, and expect EVERY bit out of our rifles, Why not use a Drop tube and take out another possible variable?

 

[52Bore]

I have known Pete for many years.
Mine and many others are 3/8" brass tube with a funnel, usually brass - mine is copper, formed and soldered.
I've used one since I started LRML in 1990/91.. I had to stop using mine in a match at Oak Ridge, nearly 5 years ago or so due to a light rain that was causing my powder to stick to the funnel. Finished the day without it and shot the next day without it - I have not used one since. Have seen no difference in sight settings or my accuracy (scores), from 200 - 1000.
I wipe/clean between shots and the few, few times my paper has come off loading was because I was in a hurry.. never have I felt it was because of any powder from loading.
Compared to cartridges -completely different.. They are limited on case capacity and found a drop tube compacts the powder in the case so they can get more in. Aren't our ML barrels a drop tube in themselves? .45 in diameter and long - like a drop tube.
I have noticed in the wind that my drop tube funnel made it easier to dump my load into, that's all I've found. I may make a short start funnel for this purpose.

 

[Idaholewis]

I have known Pete for many years.
Mine and many others are 3/8" brass tube with a funnel, usually brass - mine is copper, formed and soldered.
I've used one since I started LRML in 1990/91.. I had to stop using mine in a match at Oak Ridge, nearly 5 years ago or so due to a light rain that was causing my powder to stick to the funnel. Finished the day without it and shot the next day without it - I have not used one since. Have seen no difference in sight settings or my accuracy (scores), from 200 - 1000.
I wipe/clean between shots and the few, few times my paper has come off loading was because I was in a hurry.. never have I felt it was because of any powder from loading.
Compared to cartridges -completely different.. They are limited on case capacity and found a drop tube compacts the powder in the case so they can get more in. Aren't our ML barrels a drop tube in themselves? .45 in diameter and long - like a drop tube.
I have noticed in the wind that my drop tube funnel made it easier to dump my load into, that's all I've found. I may make a short start funnel for this purpose.

52, I won’t argue that they do, or don’t work better as I honestly don’t know? But to me they make really good sense to use. There will always be a certain amount of moisture left in the fouling in the grooves after Swabbing, which only makes sense that it would act as a magnet to the dry powder falling down the bore, Again I cannot prove this as i honestly don’t know? I need to get a bore camera and test this, ive been wanting one anyway, this will give me another reason to order one.

Truth is i shot just as good without the Drop tube as i am now with it, But the way i see it, it’s DEFINITELY not hurting anything, and might be giving me an edge? As I’ve stated before, ANYTHING i feel that might give me an edge? I’m taking it! :yeah:

 

[long shot]

sometimes , the difference between an x or a ten . will be all you see , same maybe with weighing charges or volume

 

[Idaholewis]

sometimes , the difference between an x or a ten . will be all you see , same maybe with weighing charges or volume

45cal, This is my thought as well, By using the Drop tube it takes out another excuse a guy might try and use for a crappy shot target :lol: i sure don’t see the Drop tube hurting anything? As i see it they can only help, or keep everything the same? Either way you are out about 30 seconds of your time, which I don’t see as being a big deal. It ads confidence to me knowing that not 1 single granule of my powder charge is stuck to the bore walls. I am definitely gonna continue to use mine.

This might be like the little kid with a playing card and close pin holding it in the spoke of his bicycle wheel, makes him feel like he is going faster! :lol:

 

[52Bore]

sometimes , the difference between an x or a ten . will be all you see , same maybe with weighing charges or volume

I can't shoot that good.