max accuracy from a Knight muzzleloader?

[geneso]

Hello,
I have a Knight Disc Supreme rifle. I have the time and am experienced in developing loads for rifles and want to gain the best accuracy I can gain from this rifle. It has been modified by Mr. Fike so no discs are needed. The weapon has two action screws that attach the action to the stock and has a floor plate for these screws. A good recoil pad has been added.We have received a muzzlebrake for the weapon and funnel for loading it.

There are enough of these weapons available that some basic paradigm must exist as to an accurate range for loads which must exist for these Knight rifles. Since my weapon has been modified, Knight has not been helpful as of now, as to giving me some idea as to best range of loads. I have fired 100 grain loads ( 70 by weight) for sighting it in. I figured there is a lot of practical knowledge from shooters on this site and it has been quite useful to me as I am introduced to a type of shooting I am not familiar with. I have a chronograph and can use it to identify a specific velocity range for these barrels.

I am in the Rockies in New Mexico, and potentially long range shots may happen, if the energy for these large projectiles will provide a clean kill.

 

[Shorty]

Bullet to bore with heavy all lead bullets. Slug bore for diameter and add a thousand or two..

 

[HC]

Caliber, rate of twist.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

X2, what caliber? 50 or 52 probably. If you cant slug your bore then you may want to find an adjustable sizer. Otherwise, if shooting bullet-to-bore, you’ll need to try out some different diameters. I went a different route tho, and took a few inexpensive Lee sizers and when i got the one the made my bullets a tiny bit looser/easier then i wanted them, i started polishing(ultra fine sanding really) them out til i got the loading force where i wanted it. Of course, this was with a lead conical. It would be different diameter if i was using a jacketed bullet. Similarly, with sabot bullets, different bullet diameters and different sabot styles and colors need to be tried, to find the ideal fit. Then different powder types and weights(or volumes) to see what groups best. There may be someones pet load that’ll work great for you, but what fun would that be.

 

[Ax Handle]

All rifles are different, even within the same manufacturer and model. This is especially true with non-custom muzzleloaders. Unfortunately you need to find out for yourself. I have both a CVA and Knight and find them adequate but both equally disappointing in terms of accuracy with multiple bullet and powder combinations. Going to try heavy lead next week and see where that leads.

 

[geneso]

Thanks guys,
The bore is a 50 caliber and the twist is 1 in 28. I would prefer to use jacketed bullets like Hornady ELDX and Fury's. I have Blackhorn powder and know the cost of that powder is huge already and will be going up. The fun of finding the load which works best of the 1 lead bullet, 5 sabots and two jacketed full bores , would be finding the right vibration node for this barrel quickly, so I can concentrate on practicing with this rifle and finding its practical trajectories' to a max distance for hunting here in the Rockies. My range allows me to reach 800, but I wish to establish maximum practical distances for an ethical hunting shot with a muzzleloader. I weighed my first five shots at 70 grains (Pyrodex Select) and only found out later that was equivilent to 100 grains of volume.

 

[ElDiablo]

A .50 28 twist is not ideal for shooting long high BC bullets at longer ranges. But give it a try and let us know how it works for you. As Axe says above, each rifle is different so no one can tell you what will work best in your rifle.

 

[snapbang]

I have not had the pleasure of hunting elk with a muzzle loader but always thought if I did I would use one of the 450 grain or heavier bullet in the pic below. (edit one of the 4 on the right) I do have a Knight (several) and I do have these bullets. They shoot great with 77 grains by weight of T7 ffg and a cardboard wad between the bullet and the powder and lube on the bullet. I have not pursued additional load development because I have doubts about me hunting elk in the future.

The bullet is made by Mr Hollowpoint and he has a web sight. He will size them to your specs and I requested .503. Our member Ron has shot them in his expansion tests and those videos are available here.

I like this bullet because it should have a slightly better BC than a lot of lead. A little help anyway for longer shots.

Personally with heavy lead I think if you can hit it you can kill it. I just checked and if assigned a BC of .2 and a velocity of 1450 fps then you will still have 800 fps velocity at 500 yards. I think its going to require something more than a baseball glove to stop that bullet. Lots of theory here. Good luck and kill one for me.

 

[hornclayton]

I have not had the pleasure of hunting elk with a muzzle loader but always thought if I did I would use one of the 450 grain or heavier bullet in the pic below. (edit one of the 4 on the right) I do have a Knight (several) and I do have these bullets. They shoot great with 77 grains by weight of T7 ffg and a cardboard wad between the bullet and the powder and lube on the bullet. I have not pursued additional load development because I have doubts about me hunting elk in the future.

The bullet is made by Mr Hollowpoint and he has a web sight. He will size them to your specs and I requested .503. Our member Ron has shot them in his expansion tests and those videos are available here.

I like this bullet because it should have a slightly better BC than a lot of lead. A little help anyway for longer shots.

Personally with heavy lead I think if you can hit it you can kill it. I just checked and if assigned a BC of .2 and a velocity of 1450 fps then you will still have 800 fps velocity at 500 yards. I think its going to require something more than a baseball glove to stop that bullet. Lots of theory here. Good luck and kill one for me.

View attachment 40623View attachment 40623

thats interesting using mrhollowpoints bullets in muzzys. these are soft lead intended for pcp airguns. I have a bunch including a .510 and have contemplated this before but only with lighter loads and closer range.

 

[Shorty]

Isn’t soft lead, soft lead as you would buy in a store?

 

[The long rider]

To help gain accuracy in any rifle I would bed the action with Devcon 10110 epoxy.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

Isn’t soft lead, soft lead as you would buy in a store?

Yessir. If it ain’t soft lead, then its an alloy. I prefer to use 40:1 lead:tin for my casting. But plenty of people shoot pure(soft) lead with great results on animals. Imo, a hollow point isn’t really necessary with pure lead since it mushrooms so well.

 

[snapbang]

See Rons test. Frankly even if it were made of steel a nice long through and through hole will help you with a blood trail. Hit it where you are supposed to and you will have your elk.

 

[ENCORE50A]

You'd be surprised at what a Knight will do at long range.......... BEYOND 300YDS.
Knights have won a bucket full of National titles, shooting to 500yds. No other production rifle can match them to date.
The 1:28 twist will get you to 500yds with not much work, but if you intend to shoot beyond that, you won't be real happy with that twist.
Increase the velocity, such as using 120grs VOLUME of BH209 and a 300gr bullet, Parker, Fury, Arrowhead, Pittman and you'll have sufficient energy for long range hunting.
Very few LONG RANGE shooters on the site.

 

[Ax Handle]

My son shot a midwest whitetail this year with a 50 cal paramount pro using 150 grains of BH209 and 285 gr power belt (45 cal). Two points: 1. Even though it was a perfect shot and his heart was blown to smithereens, the buck traveled well over 100 yards - tough tough animals. Amazing. 2. There was no exit wound and not a drop of blood to be found. My conclusion: I will be using heavy bullets out of a ml going forward... i want two holes if possible.

 

[geneso]

What a wealth of great information! 500 yards,I had no idea! Long ago I had shot a BPCR rifle loaded by the owner who was a competitor. It was an indelible experieince with its globe front sight witha spririt level and that tall vernier rear sight mounted on the wrist. I shall have that combination since New Mexico requires iron sights now, but only after using a scope in load development.
I am assuming 150 grains of volume powder charge. What would that be in a weighed charge?

 

[snapbang]

No assumptions. You'll have to work up an accurate load. Whatever bullet you choose you will need to do a lot of shooting to see how much powder shoots the most accurate. It could be 70 or 150 but likely in between somewhere.

 

[ENCORE50A]

What a wealth of great information! 500 yards,I had no idea! Long ago I had shot a BPCR rifle loaded by the owner who was a competitor. It was an indelible experieince with its globe front sight witha spririt level and that tall vernier rear sight mounted on the wrist. I shall have that combination since New Mexico requires iron sights now, but only after using a scope in load development.
I am assuming 150 grains of volume powder charge. What would that be in a weighed charge?

If you plan on using BH209, then NO on 150grs.

A 120gr VOLUME charge is maximum for your Knight shooting BH209. The actual weight of that charge will vary depending on the lot#. You can worry about that later.

You need to determine what bullet/s you'd like to start with, and then which charge will be the most accurate at long range. And determine YOUR maximum hunting range abilities.
Just because a bullet will shoot a single hole at 100yds, in no way does it mean that it will be accurate to the beginning of long range, 300yds. Likewise, a bullet that is accurate at 300yds, may be all over the place at 500 or 600yds.

If you're going to determine what and how to shoot long range, its not cheap. You'll go through primers, propellant and likely a few different bullet types to determine what works best for you. Hunting at long range does require bullet energy, so bullet weight and/or velocity is critical. Then PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE.................

 

[hornclayton]

My son shot a midwest whitetail this year with a 50 cal paramount pro using 150 grains of BH209 and 285 gr power belt (45 cal). Two points: 1. Even though it was a perfect shot and his heart was blown to smithereens, the buck traveled well over 100 yards - tough tough animals. Amazing. 2. There was no exit wound and not a drop of blood to be found. My conclusion: I will be using heavy bullets out of a ml going forward... i want two holes if possible.

how far?

 

[Ron Huff]

I did a lot of shooting with240 Grain 44 Cal XTPs this last summer in My MK 85 and got really good accuracy. I read where a couple of folks didn't get pass throughs with them so decided to shoot some of the 44 Cal 300 grainers and with very little tweaking of the load got the same accuracy so decided to hunt with them. Shot my buck quartering to me this year at 118 yards with great results. I'm getting a little older and like a good blood trail as I hunt in some heavy cover. I bought a Knight DISC rifle from a member that has the Lehigh conversion and will be working with it this spring using BH 209 and will start with the 240 grain XTPs to get shots close then will work on bullet and load combos throughout the summer.