Groups opening on third shot

Modern Muzzleloading Forum

Help Support Modern Muzzleloading Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
I’m following this thread…I’m having a bit of trouble following what aiming point was used for which impact….seems there is extreme vertical group spread?….velocity? ..scope adjustments? …or the bipod? …too many moving variables to isolate a cause of anything…is a loading jag deforming bullets?
Following…
 
Box test yet?



You mentioned you shot from a bipod, but you didn't mention rather you used a rear bag. If you're not using a rear bag/rest, get one and use it while you're trying to determine an issue.
Use a ROCK SOLID rest.

I have not box tested the scope. I did have a rear squeeze bag, not the best bag but felt fairly stable.


I’m following this thread…I’m having a bit of trouble following what aiming point was used for which impact….seems there is extreme vertical group spread?….velocity? ..scope adjustments? …or the bipod? …too many moving variables to isolate a cause of anything…is a loading jag deforming bullets?
Following…

Let me try and clarify a little.

Range visit had two purposes: verify 100rd zero and try various bullets/powders to see if I could find a combo the rifle liked.

I adjusted the scope at the very beginning and very end and didn’t touch it for the majority of the shooting. I was trying to find the best shooting combo and planned to adjust scope from there to get a good zero; I never got to this point.

POA on all but a few shots was main center dot on each target. POI was moving which I chalked up to the changes in powder and bullets.

The vertical spread after the first two shots of each group is the problem I’m trying to diagnose.

Always a chance I was messing something up with the loading jag, I’m still in the front stuffer learning phase.

Current next steps I’m planning is to order the proper scope mount and get that changed out and then use bags front and rear on the next range trip.
 
Last edited:
Also you said that the DNZ mount was for a newer Optima. Maybe the screws are a touch too long and the mount feels tight but possibly not as tight as it should be. As a shooter you know that even a minute movement of the mount will cause a significant movement in POI.

Update here but I replaced mount and scope and shot yesterday. I had a couple 1.5-2 MOA groups so things are looking better.

Post in thread 'Load Testing Methodology Help'
Load Testing Methodology Help
 
Also you said that the DNZ mount was for a newer Optima. Maybe the screws are a touch too long and the mount feels tight but possibly not as tight as it should be. As a shooter you know that even a minute movement of the mount will cause a significant movement in POI.
This very thing happened to me with a Triumph I bought from Cabelas. I also bought a scope from them and had them mount it. Big mistake. The screws they used on the mount were to long. Screws were torquing to the bottom of the hole hence no torque to the mount itself. Lesson learned. I always do the mounting myself so I know it's done right.
 
Change your group mindset a little bit, consider shooting two shot groups, not three or five, however shoot three- five session ,two shot groups, I have had a lot of break action Optima Acuras Etc shoot 70 grains by weight and the I don't ask the little guns to put three - five in a hole I asked them to put two shots touching however, like I mentioned I shoot two shot groups on subsequent days. If I had all my shooting though that I needed to get done in one setting I understand the need to shoot groups with three to five I would make sure I let the gun cool off to absolutely the same temperature that it began with the first shot another reality is this almost everyone shooting the lightweight break actions if they're honest and they're shooting a group of three that third shot is going to roam off the group some unless they're really letting the rifle cool back to cold and sometimes fouling and in the stage of fouling plus ambient temperature same to affect things a little bit too I believe now of course from a hunting aspect it's those first two bullets I'm very interested in where they're going,,, it's why I'm so adamant about my Mantra, two bullets touching but only with break actions, anything else I expect the three- five shot group to determine accuracy.
 
i agree i read alot about load development but never the range
Some will say that 50 is too close to start but there are really an infinite number of possible load combinations out there that won’t shoot worth a damn at 50. Ask me how I know. Out here in the southwest, the wind is almost always blowing. I like to minimize that variable as much as possible when doing load development.
 
Last edited:
Consistency, consistency, consistency. That is the key to tight groups. I didn't notice you were using a bipod. I little less or more pressure on the contact point would throw off a shot. Try sand bags and place the rifle on them at the same point. Allow time to cool betwern shots
 
There’s a chance that I was seating at different pressures but I tried to be consistent. I wanted to make sure I had the bullet fully seated so I could have pushed harder on some.

White Hots are 1-2 years old and the FireStar I just bought a few weeks ago during the WalMart closeout.
Mark your range rod on your first load and load it to the same mark every shot .I got the crud ring build up shooting pellets and the bullet would not seat down all the way got to get that crud ring out.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top