Idaho considering regulation changes on deer hunting

[Renegadehunter]

I don't want to violate any of the site rules, so please keep those in mind with any comments. This is just something I've been pondering lately and would like to hear some other folks thoughts.

We have a pretty generous season in most units that go through the entire rut, as in clear until Dec 1st, and this has been called out by some whitetail clubs that are concerned with the age of the bucks being taken...as in too many young bucks are harvested resulting in a lack of mature bucks. "Word on the street", i.e. gossip, says they are basically disappointed in the lack of big racked bucks opportunity (amazing what a driving factor this is now days for most hunters!). F&G admits they can't easily check the health of Idaho's whitetail herd since aerial tactics don't work due to all the timbered areas in the state. They have already shortened the season in our 10a unit, which is a very large unit and gets a ton of pressure. They shortened it to a Nov 20 close and will use it as a "test unit". A survey was sent out last spring and the results show that around 70% of those polled are satisfied with the current seasons as they are (of course everyone likes the longer seasons).
I have been thinking a lot about this since I enjoy hunting deer so much. I do know that I see a lot less "big" bucks than I used to when I was in my teens (during the 80's). By "big" the above whitetail clubs are taking about 150 class and up, which I agree with as being a darn nice buck in our area. So, this gets me to thinking what has changed?
1. The two main units I hunt used to have a Nov 20 close date when I was younger but are now a Dec 1 close date. More of the rut is hunted.
2. Technology! It used to be a rare thing for someone to be able to consistently take an animal at "long range". Sure there were folks that would throw some lead at deer that were over 400 yards away, but most didn't try. Those that did sometimes hit them and most times didn't. No one had laser range finders, ballistic reticles, and shooting apps (no cell phones!). I believe this to be one of the biggest factors today that we are facing. I very regularly see Facebook posts or other social media that shows someone posing with a large racked animal that they shot from between 500-900 yards from them. This is a lot more shooting than hunting/woodsman skills to get close like used to be the norm. The long range game is gaining in popularity like wild fire around here, everyone has a specialty rifle set up for it. Heck I have one myself, long range for me being 500 yards or less, but still. This was before I became so obsessed with archery (or maybe more obsessed) and black powder hunting. Now I'd rather shoot a doe at close range than a buck at 500 yards.
3. For lack of a better phrase, hunting tactics or satisfaction. It used to be that people hunted mostly to put meat in the freezer and there are many of us that still do. But I feel that the majority now hold out for a big buck over all else...they won't shoot a deer unless it's a buck. I'm on the fence here, as I hold out for a while for a buck but always ultimately want to put meat in the freezer. I love making breakfast sausage, jerky, and eating backstrap. But I mainly hold out just so I have a longer season and can be in the woods longer than just the first week.
4. Property access. I believe this has mostly gone the other direction to favor the deer. It used to be that nothing was posted and as long as you shut the gate you could go most anywhere you wanted. We knew most of our neighbors and everyone let everyone hunt on their property. Now days everything is posted and you dang near have to encounter the land owner suffering from a heart attack and perform CPR on them and save their life before they would consider letting you hunt on their place...and half of them would still say no. Access was ruined slowly over the years as more and more people found that someone had tore up their property mudding, shot it up, stole stuff from their cabin, cut the nice red fir they'd had their own eye on as firewood, etc. Plus, I just find people to be way more private these days than they used to be.

Anyway overall I think the F&G is going to have to address the long range people are capable of shooting now days and shorten and/or restrict some seasons. I at least hope they will consider making more "short range" specialty seasons in more units, such as archerly only and muzzleloader only. I'd hate so to see them go the way of Washington, with 9 day seasons and antler restrictions. We'll see.

 

[Idaholewis]

Something needs to change if we plan to have any Number of Mature Bucks. The Little Spikes, Forky’s, and basket Rack 3-4 Points Get the Daylights shot out of them the First of the Season (How do you Grow Big Bucks when the Little guy’s get HAMMERED?) For one i think the Deer season is Open WAAAAAY to long here (Nearly 2 Months For Rifle) I think they should go back to the way it use to be, Rifle Elk Season opened the 10th of October (and stil does) But the Deer season didn’t open til like the 20th, That gave the little bucks i just mentioned above a Chance to Wisen up From the Elk hunters in the Mountains. Most folks around here that i have talked with about this have the same mentality, if I don’t shoot it the next guy will!

Here is a good example of what i mean, My folks moved here 20 years ago, i came over the 1st year they were here for a Visit, My dad took me on a Short 2-3 mile drive from His home at Dusk one evening to look at deer, We watched 4 or 5 TRUE TROPHY class Whitetail bucks all together in the back of a Big field, I mean 160-180” Bucks. Try and do that Today, GOOD LUCK!! That has not been seen here in MANY years now, This was back when Deer season opened later. As most Whitetail hunters know, it doesn’t take long for the little bucks to wisen up, A lot of these mountain rds see little to no traffic all Winter after hunting season closes, and most of the entire summer, other than the occasional Firewood cutter. The little Bucks are actually Dumb to a BIG degree when The opening day of Rifle starts and they take a SERIOUS Beating.

I feel they need to go back to the Old Way of opening the Deer season later, STOP Second Tag Sales, Maybe even do a Pt restriction? Allow Women and Youth to Take any buck? I’m not sure of the Answer? But I think our Deer herd is in trouble if something doesn’t change. Coyotes are BRUTAL on our Deer in the Winter months when we get BIG Deep Snow.

So far this has been the Worst Deer season i have seen here, There are TONS N TONS of Hunters up here this year. Lots of out of Staters, And residents from Lower units, I have never seen this amount of people up here before. All out of state deer Tags were sold out this year, I recieved an email from F&G back in the Summer predicting that this was gonna be a FABULOUS Big game year, So far it has been by FAR the worst I have seen. Could this email from F&G have been a Plot to sell out Tags?

As for the Long Range Craze, YEP, everybody and their Brother has a Rifle setup nowadays with Custom turrets to reach a Country Mile. This Country up here is BRUSHY for the Most part so it’s tough to actually use those Setups for the most part, But there are also plenty of places in between that they can actually try shots like that, I think it’s unfair to “Swing” at Big Game animals like that, WAY WAY to many variables involved in Ultra long Range hunting, a split second Step and the Animal is hit with a less than lethal Shot etc. etc.

This area has been plagued with Wolves, we use to have a THRIVING Moose population here in Unit 1, it was NOTHING to go on a Drive and count 20 or more Moose, Now days you are lucky to see 2-3 Moose the entire year! Yet F&G stil gives out the Same amount of Permits? Tell me it’s not about the Money? The same applies to our Elk up here, This was BY FAR the worst year i have ever seen for Elk hunting here in Unit 1, It has progressively gotten worse year after year, To the point that i will NOT be buying another Idaho Elk Tag!!! And I’m not alone, MANY folks here feel the Same and don’t plan to Waste the Money on an Elk Tag. It’s truly a SAD deal to see such AWESOME resources diminish. I lived 38 years on the Wa coast, i seen that place go from AWESOME to Devastation, Sadly we are right on the Heels of the Wa Coast

 

[twild]

Not from there but I'll say this. The only way to protect the little bucks is with antler point resrictions, they did it here in Mo and I wasn't a fan before hand. But honestly it has made a HUGE difference in the size of the bucks. I'm not a horn hunter so makes no difference to me but it does what it was intended for.

 

[GM54-120]

The restriction in Mo is only in some counties. Statewide you can shoot a button buck and even slap your antlerless tag on it.

Grey is restricted

BUT

Does, button bucks and bucks with spikes less than 3 inches are legal to take on Antlerless or Any-Deer Permits; but for deer management, it is better to take does.

So all of these are perfectly legal to take

This is not

 

[HC]

We had a quota of 2 deer of either sex in archery and 1 buck with gun. Then it went to 1 buck in archery, and 1 buck with gun. Now it is 1 buck for the season. We are seeing more and better bucks so it is working. Its not uncommon to take a trophy buck if you put in the time and don’t shoot the first buck that walks by.


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[GM54-120]

I heard talk that Mo. was considering 1 buck too regardless of tag.....excluding managed hunts that dont count against your typical bag limits. I dont bow hunt though so i have not been following that topic.

Technically we dont have doe and buck tags. We have "any deer" and "anterless" tags. You use the same tag for ML or firearms season. Archery has their own tags and you were allowed something like 4 deer during archery. Not sure what it is now that crossbows are legal too.

 

[edmehlig]

Here in PA we are allowed one Buck and in most areas, they must have at least 3 points on one side, some areas require 4 points.

Kids under the age of 16 I believe are allowed to harvest spikes, and 4 Pointers.

 

[hunt_so_ill]

The Land of Lincoln has so much private ground, that it really depends on the landowners in the area. If they try to apply QDMA management techniques, then there are bigger bucks for all. You are allowed 2 buck tags regardless of method of take, but there are not antler restrictions or age requirements.
I think it is great for anyone to get out there and harvest their own meat, but I do like seeing big whitetail bucks while out hunting. We also have a 7 total days available for shotgun hunters and ten total days for those who choose muzzleloaders. The best chance to get a nice buck is to hunt the rut which falls during archery season.


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[Renegadehunter]

Here in Idaho we get one deer tag that can be used for any method during any open season. There is an archery permit and muzzleloader permit required to hunt those type of seasons. The muzzleloader permit is just a revenue thing, as there is no special requirement to buy one, but the archery permit requires a one time class to be able to purchase. It is basically a shot ethics class. There are two choices of deer tag, a "Regular" tag and a "whitetail only" tag. The regular tag is good for Mule deer or whitetail in units that have a season for them, but the seasons all end before the rut. The whitetail only tag means you can't hunt Mule deer at all, but the seasons in a lot of units run through the rut.
I like the thought of not opening the general gun season for deer until after elk season, as a lot of deer are taken while the masses are out trying to get an elk. A lot of folks take vacation for elk season, but don't do so for deer...especially out of state hunters. I think it would also help if the rut were changed to a short range weapon season such as archery or muzzleloaders. Idaho already has some strict muzzleloader rules, only loose powder, bullet has to be lead with no jacket and within .010" of the bore diameter, exposed caps and no 209's. A lot of people dislike this, but I understand that they are trying to keep it a short range weapon season.
I haven't seen any decline population wise in the areas I hunt as far as deer. Elk and moose on the other hand are getting slaughtered by the wolves. Bear and Cougar also play a big part in it as far as calf survival, this has been compounded by the lack of hound hunting. ALL of the people I used to know that ran hounds have given it up due to the wolf threat. I don't blame them not wanting to see their dogs ripped to shreds by wolves.
I'd still really hate to see Washington type rules of choose your one weapon and one week to try to fill the tag. Everyone I know that hunts Washington says its scary to be out in the woods on opening day, it is just a sea of orange due to everyone being concentrated into a one week period to try to fill their tag.
Whatever happens, it probably won't be favorable. The F&G is too worried about revenue to actually do what is truly best for the game.

 

[JStanley]

KY instituted the one buck only rule many years ago and it has really improved your odds of seeing B&C class bucks significantly without requiring you to be an accurate field judge of inside spread, point length, etc. If you kill a buck on day one of bow season you’re done buck hunting for the year unless you’re drawn for a quota hunt. I really like this system because most seasoned hunters I know let the little bucks walk and fill their freezers with does. Young hunters just being introduced to the sport can shoot a spike without worrying about point restrictions & such. I’ve heard horror stories about game wardens scaring the soup out of young hunters in other states who inadvertently shot a button buck or didn’t count the points correctly or judge the time length, … they can just enjoy the hunt. It’s been working really well for us.

 

[Idaholewis]

Hunting These Whitetail is truly a passion of mine, and harvesting a Big 150” Plus buck is a Dream, i have seen several that would easily make that Grade. That being said, i also understand the guy that wants any Deer to Eat and doesn’t care how big it is. There needs to be a middle ground somewhere, Permit system? I’m not sure what will work? I just know the chances of getting a REALLY Good buck is narrowing more and more every year due to the little guy’s getting Shot up in the beginning of the season, and the BIG guy’s getting hammered in the Rutt. Every year (except this one) i see at least a Dozen or so little 3 and 4 point basket rack bucks in the area i like to hunt, i try and educate them by Throwing Rocks at em, for the guy’s that want any deer i would be a BAD guy to hunt behind :lol: So far this year in the area i hunt i have seen 2 little Spike bucks, 1 Doe and her 2 yearlings, i seen 1 of the Spikes on my way out of there this evening right at Last light, he got a Rock throwed at him Like i said in my previous post, the Mentality of a LOT of folks around here is “If I don’t shoot it, someone else will” I think a Point restriction would help this Mentality, guy’s would know that the little buck they just had to drive past because he didn’t meet the point requirement, the next guy is gonna have to drive past him as well, instead of “Kill every deer we see, so the guy behind us can’t” Once These Whitetail get a few years on them, and some education they get Smart, REALLY Smart.

The other BIG thing is we get to hunt these Whitetail Through their entire Rut, This is when the BIG Boys That normally would never show their hide in Daylight are Now standing in an Old Logging cut in the Wide open, in the middle of the Day with a Hot Doe, he knows better, But he ain’t gonna leave the Doe, This is the Time all of us Whitetail finatics wait for, This is probably our best chance of Harvesting a Trophy Whitetail Buck. I would LOVE to see the Whitetail Rut go to Short Range Muzzleloader ONLY, our normal Idaho Muzzleloader only hunt Rules!! It would save a Lot of the BIG dominate Breeder bucks.

Who knows what will happen? Probably sell more Tags, resident and Non

 

[Idaholewis]

How many points does this Buck have? This would be a 4 pt the way i grew up, We count 1 side, but don’t count eye guards, I was happy with this buck, But in all honesty it’s bucks like these that really need another 2 years, when they get this size it’s HARD to pass, at least for me. My dad has let many bucks just like this one Walk off over the years

And this buck would be a 3 Pt the Way i grew up. Here is a much better example of a Buck that should be left alone

 

[Renegadehunter]

I grew up counting the eye guards, so they are a 5 point and a 4 point to me. And I agree with you 100%...I would have a really hard time letting the 5 point walk, but I very regularly let something like the 4 point walk. That is unless I have a young new hunter with me.

 

[MrTom]

Everybody has to buy a license and in my opinion should be making the decision as to what's a shooter and not a shooter on his own. If there's going to be a point restriction it should be done throughout the entire state and have one common opening day when bucks can begin to be taken....including archery.

 

[BuckDoeHunter]

In our area, that’s a 10 pt and an 8 pt.

I always tell my family, shoot what makes you happy, there’s too much emphasis on big racks but there is also a lot of money involved in big racks so big rack mentality won’t change for a while.

When I pull grilled loins off the grate, young bucks and does are the best

Iowa only allows bow hunting during the rut, I think that makes a big difference on seeing big bucks, even on public ground.

 

[Idaholewis]

Iowa only allows bow hunting during the rut, I think that makes a big difference on seeing big bucks, even on public ground.

There’s no doubt it would make a BIG difference in seeing Big bucks. I would like to see Idaho do something similar during the Whitetail Rutt, Like mentioned above, Go to Idaho Muzzleloader only Hunt Rules (No sabots, No Scopes, No 209s) It would Give the BIG breeder bucks a much better chance of making it through the Rutt to Breed again the Next year. But the way it is, and has been, We can hunt them all the way through the entire Rutt with our Scoped Centerfire Rifles that EASILY reach out to 400 yards and Far Beyond depending on your Skil level, The Big Breeder bucks take a SERIOUS Beating in the Rutt, and the Little basket rack bucks Get it the entire season which runs nearly 90 Days if you count Archery. With my Whitetail Deer Tag i can start hunting the last Day of August I believe? All of September, then General Rifle season opens the 10th of October and runs til Dec 1st, These Deer get the DAYLIGHTS hunted out of them! And here you can Shoot Any Whitetail, Doe or Buck

 

[hunt_so_ill]

Illinois only has archery during the hottest part of the rut as well.


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[LaTuFu]

Virginia has a pretty good system, I think. We have "earn a buck" where you get a certain number of tags, but only one can be used for an antlered deer. Once you get a buck, you have to shoot at least 2 does before you can "earn" another buck.

It doesn't matter to me, I have a rack on the wall and my wife has already informed me that there is "no way" I'm allowed to mount another one. So I only shoot does these days. If a B&C once in a lifetime monster walks under my stand, then I have a hill to die on. But I'm not going to climb that hill for a 4 pointer...

 

[JStanley]

In our area, that’s a 10 pt and an 8 pt.

It’s the same in KY but I’d be willing to bet a case of your favorite powder that if that 10 pointer walked by 1,000 hunters here, one might let him walk. That’s a really nice deer right there. I know I’m in the 999 group. :wink:

 

[FredB]

I grew up in Idaho, hunting unit 33. It used to be that in the winter, you could drive a few miles through the east end of Garden Valley and count a couple hundred mule deer. (mid 70's) You might see a couple whitetail, or you might not. As the human population exploded, the whitetail population also climbed. They could abide human presence, while the mulies wouldn't. Now, there is a strong whitetail population in the valley, which is a blessing and a curse. They add another hunting opportunity, but they also live and eat in the mule deer wintering grounds all year round. Now there just aren't as many mule deer, or near as many big mule deer bucks. Personally, I view the whitetail as more of an invasive species in unit 33. I wish the ID Fish and Game could see that.