Newbie looking for best practices

[Farmingdales Finest]

What is your process when shooting an in-line muzzleloader?

I won a CVA Optima in October at a NWTF dinner. Finally was able to get it sighted in this morning.

It is set up as follows: Scope Burris Fullfield E1 3-9x40, Ammo Hornady XTP 240 grain .44 caliber bullet in green sabot being propelled by two T7 pellets.

So everyone I spoke to and almost all forum threads say you should swab the barrel after your third shot. After two shots I couldn’t get the bullet seated all the way down. It would stop about 1/4” above the pellets based upon my tape mark on my range rod. No matter how hard I pushed I couldn’t get it fully seated. I then took the breach out and tried to push it forward so I could run a swab and that didn’t work so I put the plug back in and shot it. This caused my three farthest impacts from my group in the picture below. One very high and the other two right of the group. I then swabbed with a solvent soaked patch after two shots and it was still hard to get fully seated. Next I took the plug out and used a brass brush followed by a swab. The next group I used the brush with the patch and that worked the best but still at no time could I get past two shots.


The bottom 3 are my first shots to get a baseline and figure out where I needed to move the scope. As said the far right was with a not fully seated bullet. I turned my turret 1/2 a turn and the next three were the two touching at the bottom of the bull and one slightly high right in the black which is the farthest right.


I think the rest is ok for the first time shooting a muzzleloader and only the second time shooting a rifle since 1991. All shots were at 50 yards. Where I hunt I expect all shots at 40 and under. There was another shot I didn’t take that was high right in the yellow.


Looking forward to your suggestions. Thanks in advance!

 

[ElDiablo]

I would definitely avoid shooting any muzzy if the bullet wasn’t fully seated on the powder!

As for swabbing, a brass brush works pretty well for me with 777 to knock down the crud ring after each shot. A spit patch (lick one side of a cotton patch) also works for me after every shot. Work it down the barrel in short strokes as you approach the crud ring so you don’t get it stuck then flip the patch and run the clean side down a couple strokes. I do this after every shot with subs (other than Bh209). But, you just really need to figure out what works for your rifle and load.

 

[snapbang]

x2

 

[Farmingdales Finest]

I would definitely avoid shooting any muzzy if the bullet wasn’t fully seated on the powder!

As for swabbing, a brass brush works pretty well for me with 777 to knock down the crud ring after each shot. A spit patch (lick one side of a cotton patch) also works for me after every shot. Work it down the barrel in short strokes as you approach the crud ring so you don’t get it stuck then flip the patch and run the clean side down a couple strokes. I do this after every shot with subs (other than Bh209). But, you just really need to figure out what works for your rifle and load.

If I shouldn't shoot it then how would I get it unstuck? For reference I am a very strong 6'2" and 280lbs and it wouldn't budge using the range rod. I will be swabbing after every two shots going forward but it's concerning because there was pretty significant resistance on a second shot which is a possibility in a hunting situation.

 

[CatamountRob]

If I shouldn't shoot it then how would I get it unstuck? For reference I am a very strong 6'2" and 280lbs and it wouldn't budge using the range rod. I will be swabbing after every two shots going forward but it's concerning because there was pretty significant resistance on a second shot which is a possibility in a hunting situation.

If you swab between shots it probably won’t happen. Personally I like to shoot, not swab, but some of the folks here love swabbing their barrels.

 

[ElDiablo]

If I shouldn't shoot it then how would I get it unstuck?

It’s hard to imagine it being so stuck that you wouldn’t be able to pop it out from the breech side (short rod and a hammer if need be). But, if you develop a system of swabbing (every shot ir second shot) that shouldn’t happen to you again.

 

[Farmingdales Finest]

After the second time it happened I swabbed after every second shot to simulate a follow up shot. I will continue doing it that way but it is still pretty hard to seat the second shot.

Any idea about using bore butter to season the barrel? A friend swears by it on his inline but have read that it seems to be more for a percussion or flintlock.

 

[ElDiablo]

Any idea about using bore butter to season the barrel? A friend swears by it on his inline but have read that it seems to be more for a percussion or flintlock.

That was a commonly talked about practice 20 years ago. But never a great idea, IMO.

The type of primer or cap you’re using has a major influence on crud ring/fouling. Which 209 are you using? Full strength or “muzzy” 209?

 

[michiganmuzzy]

@Farmingdales Finest have you heard of or tried the “spit patch” yet? You’re def getting the Crud Ring. After your first shot, wet a patch by just putting it in your mouth, or pour some water on it from a bottle(not dripping wet but more than damp). Swab with that, a few strokes hitting that crud ring get it wet and soft, then it’ll clean right out and the next bullet will load like the first one.

 

[Farmingdales Finest]

That was a commonly talked about practice 20 years ago. But never a great idea, IMO.

The type of primer or cap you’re using has a major influence on crud ring/fouling. Which 209 are you using? Full strength or “muzzy” 209?

They are definitely a muzzleloader specific primer I believe they are Federal brand but would need to confirm. They were the only ones in stock at the store I got them at.

 

[Farmingdales Finest]

@Farmingdales Finest have you heard of or tried the “spit patch” yet? You’re def getting the Crud Ring. After your first shot, wet a patch by just putting it in your mouth, or pour some water on it from a bottle(not dripping wet but more than damp). Swab with that, a few strokes hitting that crud ring get it wet and soft, then it’ll clean right out and the next bullet will load like the first one.

No I never heard of a spit patch until this thread.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

No I never heard of a spit patch until this thread.

Easiest way to remove a crud ring quickly, while hunting, with out having to run a brush down there. Water, spit, windex (either type), all will take it right out.

 

[Farmingdales Finest]

Easiest way to remove a crud ring quickly, while hunting, with out having to run a brush down there. Water, spit, windex (either type), all will take it right out.

I have heard of Windex also Windex with alcohol but never spit.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

A spit patch (lick one side of a cotton patch) also works for me after every shot. Work it down the barrel in short strokes as you approach the crud ring so you don’t get it stuck then flip the patch and run the clean side down a couple strokes. I do this after every shot with subs (other than Bh209)

^best advice right there.^


Windex is mostly water with some vinegar or ammonia in it. In a hunting scenario, the fewer steps you need to do, the better. Next time at the range, try spitting or just tongue moistening a patch, then run it down to the resistance and work the patch up and down a fraction of an inch. It’ll remove that ring in about 4-6 swipes at it. Then another quick dry patch.
When at the range you have the luxury of trying stuff. You can swipe it with drinking water damped patch as a test too. For hunting i wouldn't even consider taking something smelly, like solvent or windex, with me.

 

[Widude]

You need a better bore fit, with the sabot/bullet combination.
First off, look into the Harvestor, ‘crush-rib’ sabot. They are much more forgiving in the bore, a tight bore.


I normally use 45 cal bullets in my 50 cal m-l. You can try slight bullet variations, .451” or .452”, you have to get a sabot matched to the bullet, ie 45 cal, then try either bullet.
I use B209 powder, all I do is reload again, no swabbing or anything.

 

[ElDiablo]

^ This.

I agree - “Best Practice” in a 209 inline is to ditch the dirty powder and use Bh209 with a good .45 saboted bullet!

 

[Farmingdales Finest]

^ This.

I agree - “Best Practice” in a 209 inline is to ditch the dirty powder and use Bh209 with a good .45 saboted bullet!

The guy at the store even recommended BH 209 but they were out and said he didn't expect them to get anymore this year.

 

[Farmingdales Finest]

Would it make sense to buy the Harvester Crushed Rib Sabot's and replace them for the ones that came with my .44 cal Hornady XTP's?

 

[ElDiablo]

Would it make sense to buy the Harvester Crushed Rib Sabot's and replace them for the ones that came with my .44 cal Hornady XTP's?

That won’t fix your fouling problems. You’d see the biggest improvement by going to Bh209 or spit patching after every shot.

And if, as you say, most of your shots are under 40 yards, just about anything you push down the bore will work at that close range (on deer sized game).

 

[Hausser1]

It sounds like a little more range time might be useful. It's the best place to learn your personal loading and shooting processes/components. I underscore your processes because there are many ways to skin the proverbial musky bait. Just kidding cat lovers, I love 'em too.
Truth is there are many processes that work for different shooters, and many will be adamant their way is the best way. Consider how some hunt with the minimal amount of gear, reloads, etc. Then consider there are those who backpack in all kinds of stuff that would last through the next world wide uprising.
I use a "Possibles" pouch on a waist belt to carry in my stuff...
- Diet Coke
- Ziplock sandwich baggie with dry patches,
- Ziplock with wet but not dripping patches soaked in plain water,
- a couple extended knurled brass jags since I inevitably lose one every 2 years of hunting,
- 6 speedloader tubes to hold my powder and sabot-bullet combination.
- appropriate tools for fieldstripping/complete teardown if required...they should have come with the gun I keep these individually wrapped in paper towel, and Ziplock, so they don't clink.
Carry the bare minimum to achieve task at hand.
I suggest you consider purchasing different types of sabots (crush rib, no rib, etc.) made for the bullet (diameter) of your choice, as also alluded to by Widude. Gotta try different combos to get the results your looking for.
Some shoot bullets made for the 44 Magnum that typically run around 0.429" or so. You need the corresponding sabots. As Widude mentions above, the 50 cal bullets typically run around .450-0.452. My barrel "slugs" out at a spider hair over 0.451. Corresponding sabot sizes are required here also.

I strongly suggest you/someone else "slug" your barrel to determine what diameter you're working with. I find it's very helpful to have a baseline to start with. As far as 'slugging' goes, it's easy and effective .... takes less than a half-hour to do. Some will hear the term and think "way too much for me to do", but it's very simple really. Please consider looking it up on youtube:
https://www.google.com/search?q=how...ate=ive&vld=cid:21ca5bc6,vid:TBhXV0_shc0,st:0