omega question about accuracy

[bob g]

so here is the problem, as i see it

i have an omega z5 got it about xmas time this last year, probably fired 200 round through it.

i use harvestor crushribs, and 250gr xtp's
along with triple 7 FFg equivalent, along with cci 209 and federal 209a primers

when i first got it it shot very well, but i wanted a scope to see the target POI and save having to walk back and forth

so i bought a t/c 3-9x40 kit, one of the blister pack jobs, and all was good out to about 50yds i could see where the bullets landed and accuracy was very good at around 1" groups or less, then out to 100yds and still grouping excellent but the optics weren't good enough to see the point of impact.

so i bought a bushnell banner dusk to dawn, 6-18x50 scope and mounted it, and all was very good, good accuracy, nice tight groups.

then i had problems with the scope mount shim, and replaced it and went back to the range to work on getting it back in plumb.

had nothing but trouble since, so i got rid of the hokie t/c mounting system and got one of the one piece jobs off the shelf at cabela's, and things improved a bit, not much however my groups were minimum 6 to 8 inches at 50 yds.

i thought it was the scope or the mount, so i went back to the t/c scope and things improved a bit, down to maybe 5 inch groups.

i then went with a weaver rail and weaver ring, high mount to clear the 50mm bell and remounted the big scope.

then things really improved to around 2-3inch groups, but it has to be better.

i removed the scope, the rail system and reinstalled the oem open sights, truglow or whatever they are called.

back to the range and went through a bunch more rounds, got it on paper at 15 yds, then went out to 45yds.

the best i can attain in 3 shot groups is maybe 2" groups if i am really lucky and thoroughly clean the barrel between rounds, not a simple swabbing but a right down i can eat of off it cleaning.

i have tried altering the powder charge, tried different projectiles, nothing makes it better and many things make it worse.

the breech plug is spotless, the flame channel is cleaned out, the tiny little passage i clean with a torch tip cleaner and it has not enlarged to the next size, it is still just as tight as it was when new.

i have really been faithful and very picky about cleaning the barrel after every return form shooting, the barrel looks like a mirror inside, no signs of any crud, ring, spots or anything but just like new barrel.

i am shooting with the same sandbags as i use for my cva wolf, same range, same targets, same weather, same position, same way me holding my lips just right, everything...

the wolf will connect all three rounds in under 3/4" groups all day long! even with recycled sabots it will do under 1" groups!

so what gives, is there something wrong with the omega or do i just have an exceptionally good wolf?

i can stand and fire unsupported with the wolf and keep under 1.5" groups all day long.

so what the hell gives guys?

i remember someone here cutting the end of his barrel off an inch to remove the bullet starter area, was that to correct this sort of problem?

if this is the case i am ready to do surgery!

or should i send it back to t/c and see if they can sort it out?

i am looking for answers guys and i am getting really frustrated.

thanks
bob g

 

[ENCORE50A]

If it were me, I'd switch over to BH209, use your Federal 209A primers and change to my own favorite bullet, a Barnes 250gr TMZ. I'd start immediately with a 110gr charge, which most every T/C with that barrel handles exceptionally well. Your optics are extremely important, which it appears you have handled.

If the TMZ is tighter than you want, try the T-EZ bullet. I could point you to many Omega shooters, shooting the load mentioned above and who get extremely tight groups and a couple who took deer at over 200yds last fall. Barnes goes to great lengths to match sabots and bullets.

Just an opinion......

 

[bob g]

thanks for the advice i will seriously consider it.

having said that, i have tried the blackhorn 209 in the past with this gun and got not only horrible groups but misfires, hangfires and all sorts of trouble... i finally got the misfire solved but the groups were dreadful

the thing that puzzles me is this gun for the first 100 rounds or so, would shoot sub 1" groups at 100 yds with the big scope with ease, then it decided it was tired of doing so, or didn't like me anymore or got bored? lol

the combination of 250/300 xtp's and harvestor crushribs was the very best accuracy i ever got with either gun, the omega shot exceptionally well with them. but not now.

i will see if i can get some of the barnes projectiles and give them and bh209 another go of it, i am ready to do just about anything to get this sorted out.

i really want to fall back in love with my omega, but at this point my ugly ex girlfriend (cva wolf) sure is looking pretty right about now!

it just pisses me off no end that a 99 dollar walmart closeout wolf outperforms my omega every which way from sunday

its kind of like getting beaten on saturday night at the local drag strip when you show up with your new 5k dollar motor and some kid kicks your ass with a junkyard pullout motor.

it would tickle me no end to get a 3 shot 1" group out of this rifle again, even one more time so that i know it can be done!

thanks again for the advice
it is very much appreciated

bob g

 

[LarryBud]

Perhaps you have a stock issue?

Can you slide a dollar bill down the stock? With my Z5, which shoots lights out, I floated the barrel by shimming the lug pockets with a yogurt lid ( cut to size ) and sanded the barrel channel to free float it.

Really, the whole process is a 30 minute job. Food for thought

 

[Lee 9]

You have a loose screw, I had the same experience when I tracked down what was wrong it was the screw that holds the action to the barrel. It is also possible for the mounting screws to cause this problem.

 

[bob g]

thanks Lee
i will check both the barrel stock fit
and the action screws

i think you might have solved this issue!

come to think of it, there was another variable that happened at the same time that the gun started whacking out.

i focused on the scope rail shim as being the cause, but i forget i mounted a folding bipod
on the front sling stud! crap!

because of how those things mount, the plate is sort of V or U shaped, and when you tighten it up, it squeezes the fore stock down on the barrel.

having said that , i don't shoot with the bipod, but i use it to set the gun up for takedown, cleaning, mounting and demounting scopes and such...

i think the plastic stock deformed from the pressure of the bipod clamping and now has no clearance, as a matter of fact the barrel fits snugly in the fore stock and has no clearance at all, let alone a dollar bill passing through.

i will fix that tonight, and report back!

hope that is the problem, sure be nice to have this thing sorted out again.

thanks
bob g

 

[bob g]

all screws checked and tight
the barrel channel has been relieved as well
this thing now has a floating barrel, dollar bill slide easily front to rear.

it wouldn't before! it was tight from the front lug screw to the end... not anymore.

thanks
bob g

 

[Smyrnagc]

This is what I absolutely love about this forum! In less than 3 hours Bob g posted a problem and got input that helped him get on the track to solving his problem. Good job guys!

 

[bob g]

this really is a good and very useful forum, great bunch of members too!

you guys have been a lot of help

if i can return the favor, my area of expertise relates to diesel engines, offgrid power generation, cogeneration and the like.

anyone ever need help in these area's, let me know and i will "hook you up"

believe me i am going to spread the word about this place over on a couple of those forums that relate to those topics.

good info and good forums are based on good members and equally good moderators.

lots of forums, but not many are really good, nice to have found you guys.

bob g

 

[AJ]

I had an issue with my Omega when I first shot it where I could not adjust the scope far enough to get a zero at 100 yards. I had a Talley one piece mount/ring setup on it. I removed the Tally and put on a +20 MOA Farrell mount with Warne rings. This setup worked great and keeps the scope adjustment centered.

 

[ram2]

i am shooting with the same sandbags as i use for my cva wolf, same range, same targets, same weather, same position, same way me holding my lips just right, everything...

the wolf will connect all three rounds in under 3/4" groups all day long! even with recycled sabots it will do under 1" groups!

so what gives, is there something wrong with the omega or do i just have an exceptionally good wolf?

Sounds like the Wolf is more accurate.

 

[BigV]

I had the stock on my Omega pillared and bedded a few years ago. Accuracy has improve considerably.

 

[Flhtr]

A friend of mine has a Z5 and he gets excellent results with the following load.

100 grains of BH209
Harvester smooth green sabots
XTP .44 cal 240 grain bullets
CCI primers

You might want to give this load a try.

 

[bob g]

just a followup

i took the omega back out to my dump/range on saturday morning, it was blowing about 25 mph our of the nw and the snow was a coming down!
coming down sideways that is, and pretty hard.
temps in the mid 30's but the windchill was way below that. miserable conditions to say the least.

my wife thought me out of my mind, i reminded her that the zombies won't wait for sunny nice weather to start their march, so we got to practice in all sorts of weather...

anyway, i managed to get a piece of cardboard up with a couple large rock, with a 2" red painted dot on it.

first shot, 7oclock but within the 2" eye... cool! been a while since that happened.

got setup for the second shot, and placed the rifle on the bags, sighted and found the cardboard was leaning over toward me so that the red dot was now a 2" long cresent moon shape, so i carefully aimed and took the shot.
then i walked down to see what happened and found about a 2.5" slot in the cardboard with the exit going right about through the first shot hole, about half the hole cut through... way cool! we doing better!

went back and the wind was miserable, my fingers very cold, i set up for the 3rd shot and did my best to shoot a fluttering target, trying to time the damn thing between gusts.. the 3rd shot was about 1" above the first shot, just outside the eye.. wow! cool!

so i think having the barrel channel relieved has made quite a difference in this rifle.

i picked up another set of rings for my scope mount, hoping to lower it more, which i did but i would have like even more, and will have to swap these in next time i go to town. anyway i mounted them and back out to the range.

not snowing but very cold and windy again, and i had to shoot 3 shots to get the scoped dialed back to the bullseye, which i was able to do... the end result was 3 shots within about an inch and a quarter.

now it comes down to me, better weather, better positioning, and i think we will be in the area i would like to see this gun.

also tweaking the load and maybe trying the recommended powder and projectile combination to see if things tighten up more.

thanks again everyone
the input was appreciated

bob g

 

[Oberhaz]

It sounds like you have made BIG progress. Glad to hear it! Especially under the conditions you were in. I too have an Omega, so I was interested in seeing this problem resolved. When it comes to inline muzzleloaders, this site is where it's at.

 

[LarryBud]

Congrats Bob,

Sounds like the problem is solved.

Clean her up good and don't forget to clean the firing pin. You need a screw driver to remove it from the rear and be careful as the spring will fall out if you dump it.