Sabots in smokeless muzzleloader

[capttoddjones]

Lots of old myths about sabots...until you actually learn to shoot them.

 

[smokepolehall]

If by most you mean CO, ID & CA, then you are correct, the rest allow .45 or .40 to be used.

Well that is new to me, those States ML seasons are almost impossible for Inlines/sabots / .45 n under cal. for Elk. Spect there are a few that allow.

 

[ENCORE50A]

I don't ever have to wait 10 minutes to shoot between shots. I live in NW Florida...can't get much hotter. 3 shots back to back with sabots in 100 degrees temps at 300 yrdsView attachment 36543

WOW! With sabots at 300yds..................

How about 5 rounds at 400yds with sabots?




Heck, I'll take 600yds bullet to bore and a .3moa



Sabots are the weakest link, always have been. Its a band-aid for poor rifle barrels and ancient processes.
Its easy to see right here on this site, all the shooters wondering .... "What sabot....?" MMP, Harvester, LB, SB, green, black, crush rib, etc., etc. So you have all those different sabots to shoot, hoping one will at least get you on a pie plate. Now with the costs of BH and quality bullets, save yourself a lot of cash and time. Bullet to bore.
You'll never get to true long range with sabots.

 

[capttoddjones]

I will agree with that . But the question was about hunting and killing animals not shooting paper on a bench. I'm a firm believer that especially within practical hunting ranges a sabot is a better overall choice. Nice shooting by the way. I'm not a long range paper killer. I'm a hunter. With reasonable expectations and realistic goals. If I am going to kill paper at 500 or 1000 yrds I will definitely be using a bore rider.

 

[Ninering62]

Lots of old myths about sabots...until you actually learn to shoot them.

ABSOFRIGGINLUTELY!!!

 

[Ninering62]

I will agree with that . But the question was about hunting and killing animals not shooting paper on a bench. I'm a firm believer that especially within practical hunting ranges a sabot is a better overall choice. Nice shooting by the way. I'm not a long range paper killer. I'm a hunter. With reasonable expectations and realistic goals. If I am going to kill paper at 500 or 1000 yrds I will definitely be using a bore rider.

NAILED IT!

 

[ElDiablo]

If I’ve said it once, I’ve said it a thousand times. What works on paper for someone at 1000 yards with a 15+ lb target rifle is cool but not at all applicable to what the majority of us need for hunting.

 

[capttoddjones]

Practical shooting application. Safari style shooting sticks. Practice how you hunt. In the military we had a saying "Train how you fight" . That's how I train for hunting. The groups I post may not be impressive to a Long Range paper shooter, but they are achieved off of shooting sticks or other Practical applications for hunting.

 

[ENCORE50A]

I've said this before, so here goes again for the newer guys......... I'm a hunter FIRST. I've been hunting with muzzleloaders since 1973, which is longer than most of those wanting to argue are old. I was started around 5yrs old hunting. Its been a way of life and sustenance for over 70yrs of animals and birds.
I've harvested more animals than most could ever imagine, so it's not just punching paper. Please read the bold above again...........

Now the 3 of you certainly love sabots. That's ok if they work for you, I agree, keep using them. However, I challenge all to show me how a sabot will improve your hunting, loading, accuracy, or harvesting over bullet to bore. You won't load faster. We know why CO won't allow sabots, as after shot, it litters the ground for hundreds of years.

 

[ElDiablo]

 

[ENCORE50A]

View attachment 36556

Goodness, I must be in your boat..........

You run off, yet when someone asks you to actually prove YOUR THOUGHTS or processes, you laugh and display childish memes.
Yup, you "sized bullet for LONG range.." Then you show a piss poor 40yd target. LMAO and so was every other REAL long range shooter.
What a Narcissist. If people don't agree with you, the child comes out, just like this meme. SMH
Grow up.

 

[ElDiablo]

Let’s start a new thread to debate btb vs sabots.

 

[Ninering62]

If I’ve said it once, I’ve said it a thousand times. What works on paper for someone at 1000 yards with a 15+ lb target rifle is cool but not at all applicable to what the majority of us need for hunting.

But you still need a drop tube.

 

[ENCORE50A]

Let’s start a new thread to debate btb vs sabots.

You already did that once and it didn't give you the results you were desperately seeking.
That's after you tried the same thing on a different site, where it didn't work out for you either.

....... Now the 3 of you certainly love sabots. That's ok if they work for you, I agree, keep using them. However, I challenge all to show me how a sabot will improve your hunting, loading, accuracy, or harvesting over bullet to bore. You won't load faster. We know why CO won't allow sabots, as after shot, it litters the ground for hundreds of years.

You've had multiple invitations to help prove your point, yet on every invitation you've come up with some kind of excuse. "I'll be hunting elk in September" Can't shoot with us. Then when you're invited in June its, "We're contemplating going to Africa". Every invitation you've been given, you've come up with an excuse to not show. Its certainly not because you can't afford it is it?
The invitations are STILL being given. Stop the talk, walk the walk. I will personally help you if you show to the invitations. I can tell you for certain, that 45-70 will help also. We'll send bullet to bore at 1k off cross sticks shooting prone, and we'll do what we can to help you shooting sabots. Once those two days are over, we'll all head over to Friendship and shoot the inline hunter match, where we can use a bench or any other position. Just no rear support. We'll start at 50yds, go to 100, 200 and then start on the steel from 200m to 500yds. Your sabots will work well at those distances.
Both 45-70 and myself, along with a lot of other shooters will provide you all the help you need. We'll walk you through the entire processes.

Almost forgot, you don't have to use a drop tube either.

 

[Ninering62]

I don't ever have to wait 10 minutes to shoot between shots. I live in NW Florida...can't get much hotter. 3 shots back to back with sabots in 100 degrees temps at 300 yrdsView attachment 36543

The same here, we live only a few hrs apart so we have the same climate. I never have to worry about my groups becoming unacceptable ( moa or better ) when I " load/shoot, load/shoot " in a fairly rapid succession while at my bench. either. And from the 500 rounds or so with sabots out of my accura have I ever been concerned with how tight or loose they fit my bore. I'm not sayin that if they needed beating down or they fell down my bore that it wouldn't be a problem. I am saying that the necessity for them to be as precise of a fit as what is needed in a bullet to bore application isn't an issue. Smooth sided .400 bullets shoot just as good as .402 knurled bullets & both load great.
Where as, here, I have sized bullets to fit my Paramount perfectly on a cold morning & in the midday-early afternoon, the barrel steel has heated up just from ambient temp that those same bullets will fall right down, or right out of the barrel. There is never any of that with sabots. And moa accuracy at 300yds or more is very realistic & doable. And in a hunting scenario, I can reload in half the time as with bullet to bore & high humidity or wet weather, its just a better way to go.

 

[HV-Muzzleloaders]

If you have a barrel that is slightly tapered internally and is slightly tighter on the muzzle end, a sabot may be the better option.

If you put a smooth-sized bullet down this barrel the fit will get looser when it gets to the powder charge.

 

[ENCORE50A]

If you have a barrel that is slightly tapered internally and is slightly tighter on the muzzle end, a sabot may be the better option.

If you put a smooth-sized bullet down this barrel the fit will get looser when it gets to the powder charge.

Agreed. Inconsistent barrels.

 

[capttoddjones]

Paramount is a perfect example

 

[Smyrnagc]

This thread is being watched and personal, off topic posts are being deleted.

 

[brownisdown]

Can't we all just get along!Every one should be able to shoot what ever way THEY feel is best for them.How boring it would be if we all shot the same gun in the same manner.If one way works for one guy and another way works for another guy,then so be it.That is what makes muzzleloading so much fun.Finding out and experimenting with what shoots best for that person.