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ok thanks Grouse ....
Savage/Cabela's gets it right!
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1. Two/three Triumphs for the price of a 10ML BP? You can't buy a stainless steel Triumph for ANY price. The CLOSEST one can get with a Triumph to the 10ML BP is a Thompson/Center Triumph .50-Caliber Rifle ? Weather Shield/Realtree AP HD $529.99 at Cabela's(Midsouth has a similar muzzleloader for $503.07). I agree someone pinching pennies isn't going to purchase a 10ML BP but they aren't going to shell out $500.00 plus for a decked out Triumph either.
2. Function firing before leaving factory.... I have personally owned more than one muzzleloader(a few centerfires too!) that wouldn't go BOOM when the trigger is pulled...and a custom muzzleloader that was missing ACTION SCREWS. This is added insurance that things are properly put together before the consumer gets the product and that at LEAST someone took the time to test each and EVERY 10ML before it leaves the factory. I would think anyone could see the benefits of this...
3. Bases/rings... Some WILL use the included bases/rings. These are the same bases/rings included with the 10ML-II Value Pack that includes scope/mounts.
4. "3/8" socket head and socket wrench that I'll have to keep track of when I can just use my fingers on a triumph".... Fingers aren't always enough to remove the Triumphs breechplug, I have two of them. That's why they also include a breechplug tool as well. :wink:
5. Both are fine muzzleloaders...they SHOULD be accurate..
6. Accu-Trigger adjustable trigger. One can't buy an adjustable trigger Triumph for ANY price. Easily worth $80-$100...at least it is to me. Without an adjustable trigger it is completely luck of the draw as to if one gets a good trigger or not.. Both of my Triumphs have good triggers..one at 3lbs 13 ounces and one at 3lbs 15 ounces...but not GREAT triggers. Let's not forget...NO hammer to fumble with especially in cold weather with gloves plus the has 10ML one of the best designed 3-position safeties around.
7. Strongest action, moot point? Completely a safety issue... Savage uses the same barrels as they would on a .458 Win Mag... The same action as a .300 Win Short Mag... Not a smokeless issue at all because many non-smokeless loads generate the same pressure as some smokeless loads. Safety issue in case of bore obstruction, double charging, etc...or other stupid human tricks some try!
I agree with Doohan. I need some help trying to figure out which one to buy. The Savage 10ML BP or the Knight Ultimate slam.
Big6X6, Why do think the Savage would be better than the Knight. I really like the looks of the Savage, but I want to spend my money wisley.
Big6X6, Why do think the Savage would be better than the Knight. I really like the looks of the Savage, but I want to spend my money wisley.
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Doohan said:I think the real question is...
The Savage / Cabelas 10ML-BP vs the Knight Extreme Ultimate Slam
Cant wait to see them head to head.
What are you waiting to see?
I am waiting to see a good review. I read Toby's rag but I really don't take much he says to heart. He has a long standing love affair with Knight and he would be the last person to post an objective opinion.
Knight has lost their way IMHO within the last few years with their lineup of wierd looking guns and old ignition systems. Knight is long on marketing and short on product. Something I look for Knight to make right with this new gun. Knight is also known for high dollar rollouts. Before the introduction of BH209 I LAUGHED at the price of the LRH. Now, they are at a price point they should have been at all along.
I suppose I am excited. The new Knight appeals to me. It excites me to see them roll out a gun that gets us back on track with the Disc Elite. IMHO since they discontinued the Elite, Knight has been in a tailspin.
So, Knight Ultimate Slam vs Cabelas 10ML BP will be an interesting matchup. They will most likely be priced in the same ballpark and they both are offered in STAINLESS STEEL !!! ( Hello T/C !!! You put lipstick on a pig... It's still a PIG!! ) The 10ML is a tough act to follow... and THANK YOU KNIGHT for getting back to your roots.
Knight has lost their way IMHO within the last few years with their lineup of wierd looking guns and old ignition systems. Knight is long on marketing and short on product. Something I look for Knight to make right with this new gun. Knight is also known for high dollar rollouts. Before the introduction of BH209 I LAUGHED at the price of the LRH. Now, they are at a price point they should have been at all along.
I suppose I am excited. The new Knight appeals to me. It excites me to see them roll out a gun that gets us back on track with the Disc Elite. IMHO since they discontinued the Elite, Knight has been in a tailspin.
So, Knight Ultimate Slam vs Cabelas 10ML BP will be an interesting matchup. They will most likely be priced in the same ballpark and they both are offered in STAINLESS STEEL !!! ( Hello T/C !!! You put lipstick on a pig... It's still a PIG!! ) The 10ML is a tough act to follow... and THANK YOU KNIGHT for getting back to your roots.
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Doohan said:
Very well said JJ. 8)
A Savage has no chance against a Disc Elite shooting Black powders subs. The Disc Elite is more accurate out of the box. The Disc Elite has a better barrel, The Disc Elite has better Stocks. The Disc Elite has a QR bolt. The Disc Elite has just as good of a trigger. You might need to send it back to Knight at no charge other then shipping to make it like you want it. The Disc Elite shoots a wide variety of bullets very accurate. The Disc Elite has a better breech plug. The Disc Elite is better in just about every category.
The down side like you mentioned, they quit making them. If Jim Shockey would of really known how to develope good accurate loads it might still be around. Most people dont have a clue what MMP sabots are. Or even Harvester. North American Hunting club is testing the new Knight rifle. Why, i have no idea. I have seen in other articles talking about muzzleloaders using supplied sabots and pellets. Usually two 777 pellets will shoot but not always. That's only equivelent to about 80grns of loose. I have had bullets vertical stringing until i got up to 115grns of 777.
I've been bragging about the Triumph for a couple months with BH209. I really believe it's the best for that powder. If Knights new breech plug works as good as the one they sent me for the vision to test. Knight makes the better gun. Knights customer service is better as well. I'm really more excited about the conversion then the new ML. Can the new one really be better then a Disc Elite? I doubt it. :wink:
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Grouse
Tom I really got into the Knight muzzleloading thing late... My first ML, which now seems like 100's of years ago was a Lyman Trade Rifle 54 cal. From there I moved to a Remington SS 700ml and that became me old faithful until I bought new 26" Remington 700ml. Stil have both of them and will never part with them.... Last year or when ever it was when FF&F had the good buy on Knight Disc Extremes with the fluted MHC barrel - I bought one of those, there has been a bunch of different inlines and sidehamers in between.
Right now standing next to me is my current favorite 'the Knght DEx' I am in my mind trying to decide weather I really want or need the new USlam or even the Savage BP - not interested in smokeless at all... But at the same time I read your post on the the Elite and I thinking to myself am I missing something there - maybe I should get one of them (I have been sorta looking around for a SS)
At this point - i think I have decided that I am going to wait for the retrofit Knight bolt and BP instead of trying to pay the bill on a new USlam or Savage. Course, I need someone normal to get and try the new Knight offerings to see if they are real. And I will still look for a SS Elite - just wish I new someone around here (Idaho) that even had one...
Tom I really got into the Knight muzzleloading thing late... My first ML, which now seems like 100's of years ago was a Lyman Trade Rifle 54 cal. From there I moved to a Remington SS 700ml and that became me old faithful until I bought new 26" Remington 700ml. Stil have both of them and will never part with them.... Last year or when ever it was when FF&F had the good buy on Knight Disc Extremes with the fluted MHC barrel - I bought one of those, there has been a bunch of different inlines and sidehamers in between.
Right now standing next to me is my current favorite 'the Knght DEx' I am in my mind trying to decide weather I really want or need the new USlam or even the Savage BP - not interested in smokeless at all... But at the same time I read your post on the the Elite and I thinking to myself am I missing something there - maybe I should get one of them (I have been sorta looking around for a SS)
At this point - i think I have decided that I am going to wait for the retrofit Knight bolt and BP instead of trying to pay the bill on a new USlam or Savage. Course, I need someone normal to get and try the new Knight offerings to see if they are real. And I will still look for a SS Elite - just wish I new someone around here (Idaho) that even had one...
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sabotloader, check you PM'S.
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big6x6 said:
You dont agree?
What Muzzleloader had your two farthest kills? What out of the box muzzleloader have you shot your best groups at 150yds and above with? I wont go any further :wink:BTW- Like stated above, this is for BP subs only. The Savage is a great smokeless ML.
Grouse said:big6x6 said:
You dont agree?
Most distant shot? Disc Elite .50...but that's because I took it PRONGHORN hunting before I even had a 10ML-II(or had JUST got one. At the TIME it was basically a toss up to go on that hunt between the OMEGA .50 and Disc Elite. That was the last and only year I hunted with a Disc Elite....but what have I hunted with EVERY year for the past four years?
Best long range groups? Up UNTIL I owned a 10ML-II it was the Disc Elite .50(Followed VERY closely by an Omega .50). After THAT...the 10ML took OVER:
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http://dougsmessageboards.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=smokeless&action=display&thread=25
~ 1/2 ways down the page, I can't resist any longer. 8) 8) 8)
~ 1/2 ways down the page, I can't resist any longer. 8) 8) 8)
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How come you didnt post your Disc Elite targets? :?
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younghunter_86 said:
:lol: :lol: What are you talking about?
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younghunter_86
I went over to the board and looked but could not tell what post you were talking about.
Actually somebody ought to post Big 6X6 review over there he has more useful information about the BH gun than I see on that site. They seem to be doing bickering about smokeless vs BP than anything else.
Speaking of bickering - what is the real problem with the fact that the Cabelas gun is BP only? Everyone keeps talking about making it into a Smokelss gun anyway - but if you want smokeless why not just buy the smokeless they are about the same price ae they not?
I went over to the board and looked but could not tell what post you were talking about.
Actually somebody ought to post Big 6X6 review over there he has more useful information about the BH gun than I see on that site. They seem to be doing bickering about smokeless vs BP than anything else.
Speaking of bickering - what is the real problem with the fact that the Cabelas gun is BP only? Everyone keeps talking about making it into a Smokelss gun anyway - but if you want smokeless why not just buy the smokeless they are about the same price ae they not?
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