Smokeless for newbies

[jsteurrys]

I thought this site was called Modern Muzzleloader? That's why I joined up. Wondering now if I donated money to the wrong site. There seems to be a lot of modern muzzleloader haters on this site.

I believe what he was trying to say is there is a big difference between pellets and Firesticks versus smokeless.

I would not recommend starting out with smokeless. I would become proficient using loose powders such as true black, T7, Pyrodex, and/or BH209 before moving on to smokeless. They all have a learning curve. This is the path that I followed over the past 25 years. I only use smokeless or BH209 now. Enjoy the journey.

 

[Ninering62]

I thought this site was called Modern Muzzleloader? That's why I joined up. Wondering now if I donated money to the wrong site. There seems to be a lot of modern muzzleloader haters on this site.

Where the hell are you getting that? I’ve been in this forum for over 4yrs bc there is only a small percentage of guys that crow about their caplocks & flintlocks & dmoothbores & their hoelee black powder & all the rest are far more into modern inlines & smokeless muzzleloaders. Most of us have both traditional, inlines & smokeless in here.

 

[HV-Muzzleloaders]

I’m definitely someone that likes to start with fundamentals when learning something new. I don’t like spending a bunch of money either when I don’t know if I will even enjoy it. So with all the great info and advice, I think I really want to lean on the Firestick route, that is if it is technology that will stick around for a few years

You may want to do some investigation into reloading the empty Firestick cartridges, which contain BH209. It might help reduce the cost of using these half-muzzleloader/half-breechloader rifles.

After this video was made, I compared the MSDS sheets for BH209 and the Federal Firestick. They do contain the same chemicals, which means the propellant is the same thing.

 

[Hausser1]

Hello IronSights, i see your not a virgin on the firearm front. This is the best advice i can give you. Others will chime in and do the same. We all want safety as our number one priority, that is where the witness mark on the ramrod comes in. I would go to the woodman arms web-site and read everything on it. Then i would really think about getting the .45 cal that he has to offer. This gun is capable of shooting light smokeless loads, with specific powders, bullets, and sabots that Mark has listed. This gun is extremely accurate and very light to carry, a lot of our members here on this forum have one or more of them. You will not be sorry, the only bad thing is the lead time to get one can be lengthy. Check out our past posts about them, i could not be happier with mine. Woodman arms cares about the quality of their arms, top notch, and the people they serve. A very rare quality these days. Good luck, shoot straight, and keep your powder dry…

what's the going commission % for each rifle sold these days?

 

[MrTom]

I thought this site was called Modern Muzzleloader? That's why I joined up. Wondering now if I donated money to the wrong site. There seems to be a lot of modern muzzleloader haters on this site.

Not at all. Most of the persons on this site are very well educated thru experiences that have risen from sidelocks and flinters to inlines and ultimately smokeless. There's a natural progression to get to the top tier, smokeless. Not all chose to rise to that level, but they don't just stop learning or seeking to improve themselves either. Most here are here because of one paramount thing: safety. Most here are granule powder users because they do not want to settle for anything that limits what they can do....pellets and pre-charged, non-muzzleloader cartridges all of which requires a lot of learning and understanding the various aspects of what loose powder brings to the big picture. Hang around until you have 800 posts instead of 28 and you may look back here and wonder how you over-looked all of this.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

@IronSights, just a thought, you could get a smokeless capable ml and get to know it by shooting sub powders in it first. My cva scout conversion will happily shoot Triple Seven or BH209, just fine. Probably real black or Pyrodex too. Once your comfortable with the gun and the processes, then making the transition to smokeless should be a lot simpler. That will also give you time to research powders, loads and pressure traces, sabots & bore riders, different ignition systems, twists and bore sizes. All the stuff that makes ml shooting fun.

 

[anonymouscowherd]

I thought this site was called Modern Muzzleloader? That's why I joined up. Wondering now if I donated money to the wrong site. There seems to be a lot of modern muzzleloader haters on this site.

The only hate Ive seen in this thread is the thought of someone with no experience who wants to shoot four or five rounds per year hurting themselves due to lack of experience etc

Anytime firearms or things that go boom or can go boom of any type are discussed - from a Red Ryder BB gun to a ICBM nuke - safety should be on everyones mind.

 

[ElDiablo]

I thought this site was called Modern Muzzleloader? That's why I joined up. Wondering now if I donated money to the wrong site. There seems to be a lot of modern muzzleloader haters on this site.

Didn’t mean to step on anyone’s Fireschtikk. I just wanted to pass on the idea (that I agree with) that while none of this is rocket science, there is a spectrum of complexity involved in using these systems. That’s the appealing aspect to many of us. It’s easy to get overwhelmed as a new/prospective muzzy shooter by all the info here and elsewhere. But most guys shouldn’t feel like they have to enter at the most basic level - it’s really not that complicated.

 

[Leigh Clambakes]

Didn’t mean to step on anyone’s Fireschtikk. I just wanted to pass on the idea (that I agree with) that while none of this is rocket science, there is a spectrum of complexity involved in using these systems. That’s the appealing aspect to many of us. It’s easy to get overwhelmed as a new/prospective muzzy shooter by all the info here and elsewhere. But most guys shouldn’t feel like they have to enter at the most basic level - it’s really not that complicated.

Actually, I think rocket science is an offshoot of this.
Don't firearms and rockets both burn a fuel to create a gas, and pressure, to propel a payload, in a specific direction?
Granted firearms contain the pressure more, and rocket science has evolved to direct the pressure through a guidance system....but it seems to me they're like kisding cousins, more than they are different.

Anyway, if you've decided to adopt the firestick system, my advice would be after you are sure that's what you want..buy the heck out of the firestick doohickeys, to help counter the discontinuation of them by Federal. I'd have said buy them cheap and stack them deep, but I don't think you'll be getting them cheap.
Maybe watch the post season clearance at Wally World, when they slash their prices on stuff.

 

[ElDiablo]

Actually, I think rocket science is an offshoot of this.
Don't firearms and rockets both burn a fuel to create a gas, and pressure, to propel a payload, in a specific direction?
Granted firearms contain the pressure more, and rocket science has evolved to direct the pressure through a guidance system....but it seems to me they're like kisding cousins, more than they are different.

Haha - yeah, I was thinking that when I wrote it but you get the point (hopefully).

 

[Leigh Clambakes]

Haha - yeah, I was thinking that when I wrote it but you get the point (hopefully).

Yessir, I do.

 

[IronSights]

You may want to do some investigation into reloading the empty Firestick cartridges, which contain BH209. It might help reduce the cost of using these half-muzzleloader/half-breechloader rifles.

I don’t believe that the Firestick is reusable (reloadable)

 

[HV-Muzzleloaders]

I don’t believe that the Firestick is reusable (reloadable)

If plastic shotgun shells can be reloaded, this thing can be reloaded. However, it may involve trimming the muzzle end a little, and using a fiber wad in that end, instead of the thin plastic cap that comes with it.

I would like to see somebody come up with a brass cartridge the same size and shape that could be reloaded many times. It would be a lot cheaper in the long run.

 

[eekjellander]

Understand that I have no experience with any loose powder and I definitely don’t have the time that I believe would be necessary for experimenting with such. I am looking for a reliable, affordable muzzleloader setup to harvest a deer once a year. With the help of this forum and other research, I simply don’t think the smokeless route is in my best interest right now is all.

Sounds like the interest ain't there either , along with the time !!/just sayin Ed

 

[Shorty]

what's the going commission % for each rifle sold these days?

Very funny guy you are. Let me say why i stick with the woodman in 45 cal. The gentleman is older, the patriot is very light compared to all the rest. The gun is capable to shoot all loose powders that the other manufactured guns can shoot, plus some light smokeless loads. They have excellent track records for accuracy, which is backed by a guarantee. They have a rust proof coating which is guaranteed. They are lifetime backed by an American company. They are under $900.00. Buying one of these is a smarter move than owning others that do not give you the advantages of the Patriot, and having a bunch of closet queens. Buy once and cry once is the best advice i could give to any newbie. Ty Shorty.

 

[Hausser1]

Very funny guy you are. Let me say why i stick with the woodman in 45 cal. The gentleman is older, the patriot is very light compared to all the rest. The gun is capable to shoot all loose powders that the other manufactured guns can shoot, plus some light smokeless loads. They have excellent track records for accuracy, which is backed by a guarantee. They have a rust proof coating which is guaranteed. They are lifetime backed by an American company. They are under $900.00. Buying one of these is a smarter move than owning others that do not give you the advantages of the Patriot, and having a bunch of closet queens. Buy once and cry once is the best advice i could give to any newbie. Ty Shorty.

Just tuggin your coonskin cap. Seriously though, Mark should pay you for representing his goods. You build on helluva case!

 

[Shorty]

I understand that you’re kidding as you’re a great guy. Other members vouch for that.. lol. I was using our conversation to stop other newbies from buying a bunch of closet queens that add up in a lot of money that could be used for other things. Thank you brother. Shorty

 

[Brewcrew]

Very funny guy you are. Let me say why i stick with the woodman in 45 cal. The gentleman is older, the patriot is very light compared to all the rest. The gun is capable to shoot all loose powders that the other manufactured guns can shoot, plus some light smokeless loads. They have excellent track records for accuracy, which is backed by a guarantee. They have a rust proof coating which is guaranteed. They are lifetime backed by an American company. They are under $900.00. Buying one of these is a smarter move than owning others that do not give you the advantages of the Patriot, and having a bunch of closet queens. Buy once and cry once is the best advice i could give to any newbie. Ty Shorty.

Nicely stated. Back in the early days of Thompson Center Arms they were also backed buy a lifetime warranty. TCA developed into an outstanding company until they were sold. I see the Woodman following in the same path, hopefully they keep producing those outstanding high quality rifles. I have my sights on a new Woodman 45 cal.

 

[Tannhauser]

I thought this site was called Modern Muzzleloader? That's why I joined up. Wondering now if I donated money to the wrong site. There seems to be a lot of modern muzzleloader haters on this site.

Thats not at all what the comment meant.

 

[eekjellander]

Thats not at all what the comment meant.

Don’t bother explaining anything to this guy , already knows it all