super 91 range trip (lots o' pics)

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n8dawg6

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took the s91 to the range today. prolly went thru about 50 rounds total . . . tha dam breechplug was stuck tight when ah got home :mad: anyway, not sure about thuh reeesults . . . ahm wonderin' how much "shooter error" had tuh do with it. one things for sure, the reemingtun caps solved the hangfire problem in the s91 just like they did in the lightnin. here's uh pic of the s91:

s91.jpg


its a good lukin' rahfle . . . no doubt about it ;D

aaight . . . here we go. ah had tree types o' projectiles on hand: 1) bullshop nei 373's @ 500 g. sized tuh .504 2) white powerpunches sent from doc w/ the rifle, ah believe approx. 400 g. and .503 diameter and . . . 4 . . . ah mean 3) 250 g. .452 xtp in tha black mmp sabot. ah only used wun type o' powder, t7 ffg, cause ah didnt want tuh clean up pyrodex p or blackpowder. now . . . here's how it unfolded (and ah apologize to those of u who have dialup cause dere's lots o' picturs): oh yeah, and all powder charges are by volume:

ah started out w/ 65 g. t7 and the 500 g. bullshop nei 373 at 50 METERS. two shots, a scope adjustment, and one more shot:

65sight.jpg


not too good, so ah adjusted tha powder charge up to 70 g. t7:

bullshop70.jpg


why do two holes clip each other and then wun flies? ah dunno, so ah adjust thuh powder charge to 75 g. t7. 5 shots . . . 4 w/ in less than in inch CTC, yet there still a flyer (second shot, just like the previous target). keep in mind this is FIVE SHOTS . . . the second shot is the flyer . .. is the 2nd shot operator error or ???? (still at 50 meters, btw)

5shotbullshop.jpg


at this point im starting to wunder if swabbing has something tuh do with the flyers. up until this point, i have been swabbing once per group. i.e. for each three shot group, one swab in-between groups, and for that last (spectacular) five shot group, only one swab before i shot the entire group. so i decide to try a 3-shot group w/ 75 g. t7 swabbing between EACH SHOT:

bullshopswab.jpg


yet again, only one flyer, w/ two shots cloverleafing (the 2nd shot is the flyer). at this point i decide to move the target back to 100 meters. i fired two 5-shot groups w/ the nei 373's. both were with 75g. t7. first group:

bullshop1.jpg


adjusted the scope since they were hitting a little low . . . also i was concerned (as always) about operator error. so i wanted to fire one more 5-shot group w/ the exact same powder charge and bullet to see if i had screwed anything up:

bullshop2.jpg


as u can see, the group was even worse, but three of those shots made a very nice group . . . hmmmm . . . ::) at this point i ran out of bullshop bullets. so . . . i figgered i'd try some plastic.

moved the target back to 50 meters and shot a 3 shot group w/ 250 g. xtp's and 80 g. t7:

80plastic.jpg


thats good. then i upped the charge to 85 g. t7:

85plastic.jpg


clearly the group spread a little, so i figured the s91, like my lightnin, liked 80 g. better than 85 g. w/ the xtp's. so then i moved the target on out to 100 meters. the first three shots went into approximately ONE INCH:::::: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

wtf100meters.jpg


but then i made the MISTAKE of firing TWO MORE SHOTs which impacted several inches to the top left and the lower right of the original group ("flyers" or whatever the f they were are marked by the notation "WTF").

wtf100meters.jpg


at this point, i wasnt sure if i had caused those last two flyers or not . . . i wasnt sure if i could even shoot groups. i didnt know what the hell was going on. it seemed quite clear at first that the concials were just shooting more erratically than the sabots, and that it wasnt my fault. but after those last two shots . . . i didnt know. my confidence was shattered, so i temporarily said "to hell with muzzleloading," broke out the GLOCK .40 S&W, and shot the following target:

glock.jpg


oh yeah, i shot those powerpunches too . . . they didnt group. i didnt even bother, i could tell that they were slipping down the barrel too easy (target shot @ 50 meters):

powerpunch.jpg
 
:D Nice lookin Super 91 there n8dawg6!!!

Those PowerPunches (per my checkin Yesterday) are a tad tighter in my .504 bore than the No Excuses (sized at .503 per box). Per White the 460 50 cal. PP is sized at .5035 which likely explains. I havent shot the PowerPunches yet but jiust pushed some down bbl.

Good test range visit in that you tried a variety of loads. I only shot the 460 No Excuse so far. Its very loose in bbl but never slid out without a lil 3fg 777 help. :lol: They are damn accurate out of my Super 91 but I plan to try some other bullets for the heck of it. Like they say, "If it aint Broken...BREAK IT!!! :lol:

I never swabbed between shot with my White.

Good pics there & sounds like you had fun!! A few unexplained fliers always seem to draw us back to the range sooner than later!!! :lol:
 
yer right about that loggy . . . im already thinking about going back and what im gonna try different next time. those bullshops sized to .504 really fit this rifle the way i think they're supposed to fit . . . there's a little resistance, but not much when you push them down the bore. also, as u can see, they are wadcutters that make nice huge holes on the target :D
 
Nice shooting, dawg.Thanks for sharing the pics.One more thing,get yourself some" Slick 50 One Grease"from walmart(about $4 a tube in automotive).The stuff works great on beech plugs for me.Also when you are using 777 break the beech plug loose and retighten after 6-7 shots on a clean barrel.Last time I stuck a beech plug was 5 years ago on a Tradition Lightning .45 cal. using Clear Shot Powder.Those sugar base powders will stick in a heart beat.I've not stuck one since I started using Slick 50.
 
Overall I think you have a good experience. Some of them groups are really outstanding. As for those flyer... I get them all the time. I found that swabbing every second shot with the BullShop conicals helps.

Also if not shooting Triple Se7en 3f I shoot Goex 3f for powder. I really like the Goex as the price is much better.

Were you using wads at all?
 
naw, no wads . . . i just dont have any. not sure if that would change anything or not. im more perplexed by the flyers at 50 meters than anything else. at 100 meters, that target looks really small thru a 4x scope. i could see shooter error causing some flyers. but at 50 meters, i had a great sight picture and the rifle was rock-steady in those caldwell bags. so i dunno . . . that one five-shot group at 50 meters w/ the nei 373's was a guddun'! :D
 
dawg,

I'm gettin some of those Wads to try that Batchief swears by just to shudem up!! Being hearin bout usin dem wad for 2 years now. :lol:

I just sent email to Dan at Bullshop to order 200 of the 460 Grain MT NEx .504's to try. They look so purdy per the pic UC posted I couldnt stand it! :lol: Plus dont want my Super 91 to complain about liven a sheltered life! :lol:

bullshop.jpg
 
Oh, I think your results were actually pretty good! Fliers, at least in my experience with White rifles are potentially caused by a few things or a combination of things:

1. Rifle isn't bedded or is improperly bedded. I can't TELL you how much difference a properly bedded rifle can make! IMO, a 3 inch grouping gun at 100yds is certainly good enough for MOST hunting situations. But most of us at least WANT a gun that shoots better. I shot a White 97 .50 for a while, unbedded. It shot 2 to 2.5 inch groups on the average with its best loads at 100yds. I had Micky Coleman at Coleman Rifles bed it and MAN! This thing will flat shoot now! I recommend bedding a White rife especially.

2. Barrel getting hot. Hey, you're my next door neighbor there in Mississippi so I KNOW it has been hot as crap down there! ESPECIALLY with your 250gr XTPs/sabots that is probably the reason for your fliers. I would bet on it. Allow your barrel to cool in the shade, A/C vehicle, or go to the range early or late and shoot in the coolest times of the day.

3. WEIGH you powder. Try as hard as you like, being a careful as you can and you'll STILL get varying weight charges when measuring them volumetrically. One REALLY should weigh their charges for the VERY best accuracy..

4. You have not found THE combination. The facts are that a muzzleloader that TRULY groups a consistant 1 inch or better is a rare find. Here and there you'll do better than that but by and large there just aren't many. And those that DO have one that will consistantly group that well have put a lot of time and money into getting those results.

I REALLY enjoyed your write-up! That is one rifle looking rifle there! 8)
 
smokit, yeah i was thinking about cracking the breechplug while ah wuz out dere, but ah didnt :( too lazy. ill know better next time :wink:

6x6 thanks for the advice. this is an s91 from doc, so it has been bedded. kind of a sloppy job, so im not sure if that has something to do with it. however, the action seems to fit tightly to the stock, so the bedding job might be "good enuff" :D ill post some pics if anybody's interested

also, i might need to see about weighing my charges. i know that t7 is sensitive enuff that 5 grain charge increments will affect group sizes. if thats the case, then inconsistent volumetric charges will almost surely affect group size

also . . . hot. yeah, it was real hot on saturday. when i would run a wet patch down the barrel, it's come out warm to the touch. that definitely could have been the cause of those last two flyers w/ the xtp's.

might need to try some wads, too, w/ those conicals . . .
 
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