Thinking about a bolt action

[SuperKirby]

Hey guys. I don't post a lot but check in a few times a week. Lots of people smarter than me here so let's see what you all have to say.

My first muzzleloader harvest was with a Knight Disc Extreme. That was probably 10 years ago. Since then I've had, sold and traded a bunch of them. A few years ago I got bit by the TC bug, then shortly after the smokeless bug. This resulted in my current go to ML, a Pro Hunter frame I stripped and cleaned up, added Bellm springs, an MGM .50 barrel with a bushing plug so I can use smokeless or BH209 and a Boyd's stock. It's a beautiful gun.
I guess things have come full circle but these last few months I've had an itch to get back to a bolt action. I've looked at Mountaineers, Remington Ultimates, and the Knight Ultra Lite. My question is, would I be better to sell the TC I have to fund a bolt action purchase? Wait a year or whatever it takes to save up enough to buy a new one, or do nothing and just sit on it figuring the itch will go away eventually?

 

[sabotloader]

Hey guys. I don't post a lot but check in a few times a week. Lots of people smarter than me here so let's see what you all have to say.

My first muzzleloader harvest was with a Knight Disc Extreme. That was probably 10 years ago. Since then I've had, sold and traded a bunch of them. A few years ago I got bit by the TC bug, then shortly after the smokeless bug. This resulted in my current go to ML, a Pro Hunter frame I stripped and cleaned up, added Bellm springs, an MGM .50 barrel with a bushing plug so I can use smokeless or BH209 and a Boyd's stock. It's a beautiful gun.
I guess things have come full circle but these last few months I've had an itch to get back to a bolt action. I've looked at Mountaineers, Remington Ultimates, and the Knight Ultra Lite. My question is, would I be better to sell the TC I have to fund a bolt action purchase? Wait a year or whatever it takes to save up enough to buy a new one, or do nothing and just sit on it figuring the itch will go away eventually?

I am not sure what or which might be best for you... and you already probably know that I am a bolt addict. Tried the others but always seem to gravitate back to the bolt.... but really I should say bolt or plunger action.

I actually was somewhat interested in the Remington but I really am not that fond of the LRMP ignition system. I tried a similar system with the 25ACP ignition in an Omega - it worked and it worked well but I really prefer to keep it simple. To me that is what ML shooting is a about the 'simple system' - more hands on slower paced but really fun shooting.

I have a couple of ULite rifles that I really do enjoy, they are light and accurate and really they are a simple rifle easy to maintain, reliable, and great to shoot. + plus for myself they will shoot most any combination I want to shoot - which makes experimenting really fun.

So much is made about the fact that Break Opens are so much easier to clean.... I really disagree with that in that cleaning a bolt is really easy also when you develop your own system.

Good luck in your efforts. actually it is really nice to be able to move from one thing to another as your needs and itches change...

 

[SuperKirby]

If I had my choice it would be between the two you mention. I like the Remington a lot and would be my first choice except for the reason you mention - the LRMP system. It seems like it works great but the cases are one more step, one more thing to keep track of, and I have a whole bunch of 209 primers.
The ultra lite would be a great choice as week and I wouldn't complain about owning one. But boy have they gone up in price. Last time I looked I could find one new around 750. Now it looks like best case your going to spend about 1000 for one. I figure I could sell my Encore for somewhere between 800-900 so I would still come up a little short.
My other option would be to try to jet sell or trade the MGM barrel and get something like a disc extreme.

 

[ohiostate]

there's a few knights on gunbroker for sale.. new and used.. what caliber are you looking at??? never handled the Remington. got a knight extreme 52 cal and a LK93 50 cal WORM

 

[Squeeze]

What is your typical hunting style? Any mentioned could be made effective to ML ranges, How much is weight a factor? If your a stand/blind style, and typically dont trek too deep, pick a favorite. If you trek all day, those few extra ounces sure stack up. A remington will probably be among the heaviest. My mountaineers scoped are probably around 10 pounds, a disc would probably come in at about the 9 pound ballpark, and the UL should be the lightest at about 8-9 pound

 

[bestill]

There's a knight dealer in nappanee, In that has great prices on knight rifles and he also sets them up with proper headspace to eliminate primer leakage.
They also have some 1-20 twist knights
Mark Miller Nappanee,IN

I would consider also a 700 ml and do a barrel upgrade and conversion

 

[SuperKirby]

Weight is an issue to a point, but not huge. I'm finding around here I would rather hunt from a blind than a tree stand if I'm using a muzzleloader. I don't feel like most stands have enough room. Where weight would really be an issue is someday I hope to make it home to WY to go on another hunt with my dad. Whether or not that ever happens remains to be seen.
As for caliber I'm open. I tend to lean towards .50 but for the right setup would go either .45 or .52.

 

[ENCORE50A]

If I had my choice it would be between the two you mention. I like the Remington a lot and would be my first choice except for the reason you mention - the LRMP system. It seems like it works great but the cases are one more step, one more thing to keep track of, and I have a whole bunch of 209 primers.
The ultra lite would be a great choice as week and I wouldn't complain about owning one. But boy have they gone up in price. Last time I looked I could find one new around 750. Now it looks like best case your going to spend about 1000 for one. I figure I could sell my Encore for somewhere between 800-900 so I would still come up a little short.
My other option would be to try to jet sell or trade the MGM barrel and get something like a disc extreme.

The brass and priming is an extra step but, if a second shot is needed, there's no fumbling around. Drop the brass in the chamber and close the bolt. With or without gloves. Knocking the primers out and re-priming isn't any more than a few minutes time. Its no where near as bad as one may think.
It all depends on how much shoot'n you do and how many primer carriers you'll need. With the LRMP you'll get (depending on the head space) 3,4 or possibly up to 8 or 9 re-primes per carrier with a perfect head space.
There will always be something, no matter what you choose. Unless its a BP Xpress
Good luck.

 

[SuperKirby]

Encore50, you have a lot of experience with the ultimate from what I've read. How does cleaning that work, specifically in regards to the breech plug? Some of what I've read makes it sound like you don't pull the plug? Some stuff I've read makes it sound like you pull the plug but it's really tight.

 

[ENCORE50A]

Encore50, you have a lot of experience with the ultimate from what I've read. How does cleaning that work, specifically in regards to the breech plug? Some of what I've read makes it sound like you don't pull the plug? Some stuff I've read makes it sound like you pull the plug but it's really tight.

Its basically the same as a traditional. It wasn't designed to be removed. Now some with the RU do remove their plugs, but its not necessary. Its totally contrary to the mind set of in-line shooters, where we've always removed breech plugs for cleaning. Believe me, it took me awhile to get used to change In-line shooters have a "mind set" that's hard to change to something new or different. Me too.

Cleaning is extremely easy (my BP Xpress). That is if you follow the manufacturer's recommendations.... Lets say we do.
I clean my BP Xpress with six (6) patches (Butch's BP Bore Shine), both sides and the barrel is WHITE CLEAN and included the drying patch. Takes about 4 1/2 minutes. I've learned a couple things, such as bunching up a patch on the end of the cleaning jag. This gets the BP face and around the edges cleaned. I also make sure that my jags are FLAT on the end. One of the guys that shoots at Friendship makes custom rods and he turns the jags for me, making them totally flat on the end.
If the headspace is right, there is no blowback into the action, thus the action is clean. If one has some blowback, then remove the stock and spray the action out with an action cleaner. I have no blowback in my action.
I have a radial brake which I remove prior to cleaning the barrel. While I'm using the patches, its soaking in a medicine bottle of Butch's Black Powder Bore Shine. When I oil the barrel, I then dry off the CLEAN brake, spray it with oil, put BP grease on the threads and screw it back on. Very simple, even with the brake.

Now I'm not completely done in 5 minutes. I'm anal about my rifle, so everything gets cleaned and wiped down with an oiled rag. Many don't clean off their scope mounts, rings, screws for both and their scope as they should. Everything on my rifles are cleaned. Don't let these other "old timers" pull your chain. The UF Inc. rifles or the Remington Ultimate are not hard to clean and take no longer than any other rifle. They're just different and a change. Humans have trouble with change..... :wink:

 

[Lee 9]

A number of people have sold a go to rifle and regretted it later, I would suggest you hang on to your go to rifle and read about what has been going on with what you are looking at while you save up some money. It seems to me like I have read about some problems I did not expect to see lately.

 

[Widude]

I've tried many and settled with Knight. I'm sure about any will do fine bagging a deer when properly set up. I'm not saying other's aren't great choices, just that I'm happy with Knight.

That new Cooper looks nice too.

 

[SuperKirby]

A number of people have sold a go to rifle and regretted it later, I would suggest you hang on to your go to rifle and read about what has been going on with what you are looking at while you save up some money. It seems to me like I have read about some problems I did not expect to see lately.

This definitely makes me think. I started thinking about it and I have a whole lot of time and effort tied up into it, not to mention dollars. I'm probably best off to save and think about it before jumping into anything.

 

[03mossy]

A number of people have sold a go to rifle and regretted it later, I would suggest you hang on to your go to rifle and read about what has been going on with what you are looking at while you save up some money. It seems to me like I have read about some problems I did not expect to see lately.

This definitely makes me think. I started thinking about it and I have a whole lot of time and effort tied up into it, not to mention dollars. I'm probably best off to save and think about it before jumping into anything.

Good call! Very wise advice. oke:

 

[GM54-120]

Sadly you just missed a unfired Knight Elite for $350. At that price it wouldnt break the bank to keep your MGM too.

 

[bestill]

There's a remington700 ml on the board for sale with scope and shipping for 400.
Great gun and price.

 

[sbuff]

If you could find a white thunderbolt you wouldn't be dissapointed, I love mine.
As for cleaning a bolt ML , they all need to be cleaned is how I look at it.
Can't go wrong with a knight either, good luck.

PS I wouldn 't let your go to gun go if it was me
Steve

 

[SuperKirby]

I looked at a couple of them and strongly considered them. Right now the only way I could afford something different is to sell the TC. When I thought about actually listing it I couldn't do it. I still want a bolt action, just going to have to wait a bit.

 

[mike nelson]

Ever consider a Ruger ML? I just bought one after reading about their pro's and con's.
-The con's of what I've read:
-inconsistent ignition with the factory supplied BP/nipple for the caps. Seems this may have been from dry firing the rifle and mushrooming the
nipple so as to not get the cap seated correctly
-blowback thru the bolt face
-The Pro's of what I've read and what I have since personally found:
-A 209 BP conversion is still available from a company in Canada that also sells bullets. This BP has a unique spring that encompasses and
captures the primer in the BP.
-Aside from the advertised con's the rifles were good shooters as stated by owners/previous owners
-The Stainless Steel bolt assembly can very easily be removed and dissasembled for cleaning
-The Ruger supplied a breach plug removal tool as well as a "cleaning tube" that screwed into the threads for the BP. My rifle didn't have the
cleaning tube, since found that the Remington ML cleaning tube sold by Midway fits perfectly. This tube allows cleaning without the bolt & BP and
keeps fluid/foreign material out of the bolt channel,trigger group and off the stock without having to remove the stock
-The rifles bolt can easily be un-cocked while closing the bolt for storage purposes
-The Ruger ML has a good trigger, no creep and a 3 position traditional safety just like their model 77 rimfires and centerfires. The middle safety
position allows the bolt to be rotated/opened while remaining ON SAFE. The SAFE position locks the bolt in the CLOSED POSITION. I think this is
a important feature for carrying a hunting rifle. The current Rem Ultimate ML only has a 2 postion safety and perhaps other makes as well.
- I also have a Ruger 77/.22 & 77/.17 so one can see why I'm partial, The Ruger ML just looks and feels like a bolt action rifle

 

[LarryBud]

My vote would be to keep an eye out for an inexpensive Elite or Extreme. They are out there.

Watch the local market. I've bought several at pawn shops over the years.