Utah Muzzy Reg Change

[ElDiablo]

The Utah Wildlife Board voted today to remove high-powered scopes from muzzys during all muzzleloader seasons starting in 2024. Deja vu. We will be back to the pre-2016 regs.

Only open sights, 1x scopes and red dot scopes will be legal. Variable power magnification scopes above 1x will not be allowed.

Thoughts?

 

[Idaho PRB]

In Idaho, we cannot use a scope unless you have a handicapped exception. Then 4X max. Used to be 1X but availability of them must have led to the 4X rule. Now 4X are getting hard to find. Just FYI

 

[ElDiablo]

No doubt there’s gonna be a rush on 1x scopes! Lol

 

[LHR]

I’m in favor of reigning things in a bit, but they need to do it across the board. So far all I’ve heard them talk about is muzzleloaders, without addressing the long rangers with their creedmores and PRC’s. They even admit that allowing scopes on muzzleloaders only increased Hunter success by 3%.
So why the fuss about muzzleloaders?

Utah is not loaded with deer numbers like a lot of states. Our herds are in drastic decline and something needs to be done, but scopes on muzzleloaders is not the real problem. I wish our DWR was capable of properly managing game, but I don’t believe they could manage their way out of a wet paper sack! I hope I’m wrong

 

[LHR]

The Utah Wildlife Board voted today to remove high-powered scopes from muzzys during all muzzleloader seasons

Only open sights, 1x scopes and red dot scopes will be legal. Variable power magnification scopes above 1x will not be allowed.

Thoughts?

ElDiablo ,
Did they actually pass this part? My understanding is they were shooting for closer to Idaho’s rule?

 

[ElDiablo]

ElDiablo ,
Did they actually pass this part? My understanding is they were shooting for closer to Idaho’s rule?

Yes

 

[Hatchet Jack]

Looks like a growing trend out west now. Last year New Mexico's no scopes for muzzys, now this.
I kind of like it. Getting back to basics of muzzleloader hunting. However, I also like hunting with my scoped smokeless muzzy at times too.

 

[earlwb]

Well red dots would work for me. I like them. But yeah they are trying to get the muzzle loading season to be more traditional. There are quite a few smokeless MLs that work just as good as a modern cartridge gun out there now. That rule is attempting to level the field somewhat.

 

[WP79Vet]

I like Montana's approach: Anybody can hunt with any legal weapon - longbows through modern high powered rifles - during a generous (for the West) 6 week general season.

To hunt in MT's special 9 day "Heritage" muzzleloader season, you have to use a sidelock with caps or flint, loose powder, pure lead bullets (no sabots, skirts, jacket), and iron sights with no luminous paint. The limited range of a Heritage ML and the correspondingly lower success rates are what justify a special Heritage ML season.

Prior to the general season there's a 6 week archery season in which any bow (except crossbow) is legal. I'd like to see the technology which is legal during Montana's archery season reigned in a bit too. But, having hunted extensively with both modern (ie compound bows) and traditional (recurve or longbow, fingers, no sights) archery equipment, modern archery doesn't provide that much of an advantage: You still have to get very close to an animal that doesn't know you're there, wait until you get the right shot angle, and draw the bow and release an arrow without alerting the animal to your presence. Those difficulties and the correspondingly lower success rates are what justify the longer special archery season.

 

[biggamehunter78]

This was my editorial to them during public comment.

“I’ve been muzzleloader hunting in Utah since 2003. Your muzzleloader proposal is completely off the mark regarding technology. Why did you limit the conversation only to scopes? Scopes only enable long distance muzzleloader shooting. The weapons and ignition types are the driver, and this was completely ignored. Why? There are 3 types of muzzleloaders, traditional, modern, and ultra modern. Define traditional as side locks of any type, modern as inlines with musket or 209 primers, and ultra modern as small caliber large magnum rifle primer ignition. If you want to keep the hunt more traditional, eliminate ultra modern LRMPs and anything under .45 caliber. Enforce 45 minimum for pronghorn, deer and 50 minimum for elk with modern inline bullet/sabot minimum weights. Then no one can shoot >200 yards due to weapon limit regardless of scope power. The survey results speak for themselves. It doesn’t matter what other states are doing; if everyone was to jump in a lake would you do it just because they were? Think for yourselves and stay unique. I would really like to see a) keeping a minimum of 1X scopes legal, and/or b) eliminate ultra modern muzzleloader ignition types and bore/bullet sizes instead. This is a much more common sense proposal than eliminating scopes altogether.”

They have to decide what they want ML hunting to be in the state and go from there. The survey data was pretty telling on what people wanted/were comfortable with.

 

[Bad Karma]

This was my editorial to them during public comment.

“I’ve been muzzleloader hunting in Utah since 2003. Your muzzleloader proposal is completely off the mark regarding technology. Why did you limit the conversation only to scopes? Scopes only enable long distance muzzleloader shooting. The weapons and ignition types are the driver, and this was completely ignored. Why? There are 3 types of muzzleloaders, traditional, modern, and ultra modern. Define traditional as side locks of any type, modern as inlines with musket or 209 primers, and ultra modern as small caliber large magnum rifle primer ignition. If you want to keep the hunt more traditional, eliminate ultra modern LRMPs and anything under .45 caliber. Enforce 45 minimum for pronghorn, deer and 50 minimum for elk with modern inline bullet/sabot minimum weights. Then no one can shoot >200 yards due to weapon limit regardless of scope power. The survey results speak for themselves. It doesn’t matter what other states are doing; if everyone was to jump in a lake would you do it just because they were? Think for yourselves and stay unique. I would really like to see a) keeping a minimum of 1X scopes legal, and/or b) eliminate ultra modern muzzleloader ignition types and bore/bullet sizes instead. This is a much more common sense proposal than eliminating scopes altogether.”

They have to decide what they want ML hunting to be in the state and go from there. The survey data was pretty telling on what people wanted/were comfortable with.

Why are you picking on the sub 45 dudes? My.40 shoots lead bullets up to 400 grains and will anchor deer, elk, and bear with authority. .40 in a sidelock rifle is as traditional as it gets. Maybe if you want traditional, specify lead bullets only, over 250 grains or whatever….

 

[biggamehunter78]

Why are you picking on the sub 45 dudes? My.40 shoots lead bullets up to 400 grains and will anchor deer, elk, and bear with authority. .40 in a sidelock rifle is as traditional as it gets. Maybe if you want traditional, specify lead bullets only, over 250 grains or whatever….

You can’t drive big, heavy, large projectiles hundreds of yards past where you can’t see (long range). You can only do that with smaller caliber bullets. You missed the intent of the post.

In terms of tradition, I won’t argue that smaller calibers may have won the east, but absolutely did not win the west. “As traditional as it gets” is completely subjective.

As Yukon Cornelius would say, “You eat what you like, I’ll eat what I like.”

 

[ElDiablo]

You can’t drive big, heavy, large projectiles hundreds of yards past where you can’t see (long range). You can only do that with smaller caliber bullets. You missed the intent of the post.

In terms of tradition, I won’t argue that smaller calibers may have won the east, but absolutely did not win the west. “As traditional as it gets” is completely subjective.

As Yukon Cornelius would say, “You eat what you like, I’ll eat what I like.”

If you can’t see (no scope) you can’t drive any sized projectile long range (and actually hit your target). I think removing high powered scopes was the simplest and easiest way to differentiate the muzzy hunt from the ALW hunt (a stated goal of the DWR’s proposal).

 

[biggamehunter78]

If you can’t see (no scope) you can’t drive any sized projectile long range (and actually hit your target). I think removing high powered scopes was the simplest and easiest way to differentiate the muzzy hunt from the ALW hunt (a stated goal of the DWR’s proposal).

I know it and don’t disagree. You and I both know there will still be geniuses out there trying to shoot 400-500 yards with a 1X scope out of their long range muzzleloader.

 

[ElDiablo]

I know it and don’t disagree. You and I both know there will still be geniuses out there trying to shoot 400-500 yards with a 1X scope out of their long range muzzleloader.

Oh there may be a few but I suspect most will sell those fancy long range jobs and/or go back to rifle hunting. Already seeing more Paramounts and the like on various classifieds.

 

[biggamehunter78]

Oh there may be a few but I suspect most will sell those fancy long range jobs and/or go back to rifle hunting. Already seeing more Paramounts and the like on various classifieds.

I hope so. I saw more people on the mountain this year in ML season than I have for the last decade combined. Far from rifle season but enough to be pretty annoying.

 

[ElDiablo]

Been seeing more and more where I hunt too the past 5-10 years. Lots of guys that really aren’t much into muzzy hunting…

I miss the late 1980’s when the season was in Nov and you didn’t see any other hunters.

 

[UtahHunter]

I live in Utah. My understanding is that this new regulation was caused by people shooting out to 1000 yards to take game with a muzzleloader. I personally don't believe there are more than handful of people who can do that. I think there will be more wounded animals who get away under this regulation.

They really made this inconsistent, because during the any legal weapon hunt you can still use a magnified scope with a muzzleloader.

Those of us who spent good money to purchase a quality scope for their muzzleloader are not happy campers. I am now putting a red dot on my muzzleloader incurring a couple of hundred dollars to do so.

 

[ElDiablo]

I live in Utah. My understanding is that this new regulation was caused by people shooting out to 1000 yards to take game with a muzzleloader. I personally don't believe there are more than handful of people who can do that. I think there will be more wounded animals who get away under this regulation.

They really made this inconsistent, because during the any legal weapon hunt you can still use a magnified scope with a muzzleloader.

Those of us who spent good money to purchase a quality scope for their muzzleloader are not happy campers. I am now putting a red dot on my muzzleloader incurring a couple of hundred dollars to do so.

You’re welcome to do as I do and use that scoped muzzy on the ALW hunt.

I’m not sure it was “caused” by the few guys that were taking long shots, I just think it was time to pull back on some of the tech and make the muzzy hunt distinguishable from the Any Legal Weapon (ALW). This change does that. Some of the tech/methods was (is) getting out of hand too with cellular cams during the season, baiting, NODs/thermal scopes and rangefinder/scope combos.

Good changes IMO.

 

[ElDiablo]

Oh and welcome to the forum, @UtahHunter!